T Nation

Cruising and Occasionally Light Blasting


#1

Good morning fellow forum goers

I am 39yrs old and on TRT from here on in. I recently did a light cycle of Test Cyp for 12 weeks at 300mg/wk with .5mg EOD of Arimidex

Before TRT I was 176lbs at 20+% bf. and I dropped down to 156-158lbs and probably 13-14% bf right before going on TRT. From my 12 week cycle of 300mgs/wk I was able to get up to 185lbs and am currently at 17% bf. I'm 5' 9".

I have more bodyfat than I would like (10-12% would be ideal; maybe even 8% long term). I have been back on TRT cruising for 6 weeks and planning another blast in a few months. My problem is I am having a hard time managing my E2 and would like to get this under control before cycling

I think my Arimidex is fake or SEVERELY underdosed.

I did not monitor my E2 while cycling and just ran my AI at .5mg EOD to be safe. After dropping back to my TRT for 4weeks at 150mgs/week I had my E2 tested and it was through the roof! 322pmol/L. I've since started taking the Arimidex at .5mg / ED and will have bloods done in a month. I'm currently utilizing other methods other than AI to combat my E2 issues; DIM, and trying to bind the E2 and carry it out of system (I'll get into those details further along later)

I know having a higher bf % increases the Aromoataze but is 17% really THAT bad? I have a SHITLOAD of Arimidex and it wasn't cheap (I really hope it isn't fake and will work once I stabilize and cycle again later)

I have some people trying to give what I think is bad advice; just bulk up and get your Estrogen under control later??? I thought it would make more sense to drop down to 10% body fat and level off all my hormones before considering cycling again

If I'm struggling to control my E2 on cycle would that not affect my gains and cancel out most the extra Testosterone I'd be putting into my body? My buddy is suggesting that my cycle is so light that I should not be SO concerned. This is the advice from some buddy who has cycled 20+ yrs without any PCT's and is now self-administered his own TRT

i'm pretty sure I know the answers to my own questions but I figured I would start my own personal log and keep it going for a couple months possibly to see if anybody else is going through the same things or have any advice along the way

BTW, I have been working with a natural path that does all my blood work and make suggestions on how to balance my hormone levels (after cycles) I'm firing her though as I don't think she knows shit and will be looking to work with another natural path. I've also hired a professional sports nutritionist to help with meal planning as I sometimes struggle not with protein / carbs and fats but variety of foods to help keep me motivated to eat the necessary nutrients

I don't believe in shortcuts and I try to BUST my ass to build a solid foundation around nutrition and good training first and foremost

My longer term goal is to be 195lbs at 8-12% which I feel is not unrealistic

Does anybody think that I should bulk up at 17% body fat and cut later or would anyone recommend shedding to get around 10% first. Personally I think with my situation it's best to cut first but I'm kind of hesitant on losing size even though I know it's just fat but it's psychological I think

Who knows? If I cut to 170-175 pounds at 10% maybe I'll look bigger :0

Any replies are welcomed. Flamers will be ignored as I function more through narrowed focus on my goals and objectives; feel free to correct any ignorance on my part but try to do so diligently..NOT only for my part but yours as well as some people need to learn how to get their point across more efficiently and not always "having" to repeat yourselves (flamers who are "tired" of reading stupid posts..STOP!! Do NOT reply!!! You're just as bad or worse for fucking up the accessible info on the internet..most my searches yield results that are always seemingly of no value)

I TRY to research as much as I can. I'd think these forums were better if


#2

Before TRT


#3

Mid cycle


#4

After 12 weeks


#5

excellent progress!


#6

Awesome progress man! Have you had your BF% tested or is 17% just your guess? From the last photo, you look a lot closer to 15 to me. I haven’t experienced extremely high E2 levels, but I’ll share what I’ve found. 322 pmo/l which would be 88 pg/ml is defiantly out of “ideal” range. Of course ideal range differs between lab to lab and person to person. Some say 10-30, others 20-30, others 30-50 and some labs say 2-70. I think the best approach would be to shoot for the middle of the road, 20-40 and see how you feel before going into another cycle. Is your TRT from a doc? With such a light cycle, .5 adex eod should of been plenty, so I’d defiantly seek another source. Have you thought of running Nolvadex instead? You might respond better to that.

I would defiantly use this time to get your E2 in check and cut some BF. At a lower BF your body will be in a lot better spot to make gains and manage cycle sides. If i were you I’d give Nolva a try at 20mg a day for 2-4 wks and get tested again. If your adex is dosed correctly(though I highly doubt it) then you may just be extremely sensitive to aromatization and adding Masteron to your next cycle would be a very smart choice. It will add a nice boost to lean muscle gains, hardness, and it does not convert to estrogen.

I hope I didn’t miss this but are you showing any signs of high e2 other than the lack of weight loss?


#7

[quote]Yogi wrote:
excellent progress![/quote]

Thanks Yogi

I attribute ALOT of my gainz to finally having some Testosterone in my system for the first time to work with. I’m pretty sure I’ve had low T my whole life but never got tested until this year. I went to see my doc and asked to have my Test levels checked and the fawker denied me so I bit the bullet and went to see a naturopath; T levels were 230 :0

The difference felt like night and day having T. I admit I started training WAY harder and really put a HUGE focus on my diet to make the best progress I could.

Also, I never mention this…I was a very heavy drinker for 15-20years and gave up alcohol completely for 6months…I don’t think my consumtion helped my T / E levels

Anyways, just wanted to say thank you for your response and your help. I’ll keep everyone posted the next few months


#8

[quote]anvilTX wrote:
Awesome progress man! Have you had your BF% tested or is 17% just your guess? From the last photo, you look a lot closer to 15 to me. I haven’t experienced extremely high E2 levels, but I’ll share what I’ve found. 322 pmo/l which would be 88 pg/ml is defiantly out of “ideal” range. Of course ideal range differs between lab to lab and person to person. Some say 10-30, others 20-30, others 30-50 and some labs say 2-70. I think the best approach would be to shoot for the middle of the road, 20-40 and see how you feel before going into another cycle. Is your TRT from a doc? With such a light cycle, .5 adex eod should of been plenty, so I’d defiantly seek another source. Have you thought of running Nolvadex instead? You might respond better to that.

I would defiantly use this time to get your E2 in check and cut some BF. At a lower BF your body will be in a lot better spot to make gains and manage cycle sides. If i were you I’d give Nolva a try at 20mg a day for 2-4 wks and get tested again. If your adex is dosed correctly(though I highly doubt it) then you may just be extremely sensitive to aromatization and adding Masteron to your next cycle would be a very smart choice. It will add a nice boost to lean muscle gains, hardness, and it does not convert to estrogen.

I hope I didn’t miss this but are you showing any signs of high e2 other than the lack of weight loss?[/quote]

I check my bf with a skin fold caliper. It typically shows 15% but I try to find the fattest spot and measure when I’m most bloated and use my worst readings just so I think I’m further away from lean (if that makes sense)

I have heard several times that it may be better to use Nolvadex but I thought was just a receptor blocker and did nothing to lower E2. It’s interesting because 2-3 weeks into starting Test Cyp my nipples got irritated so I did a front load with Nolvadex at 40mgs ED than tapered off to 20mgs for just 1 week then dropped the Nolva and just ran my AI the rest of cycle and never experienced anymore nipple irritation…I “assumed” my AI was taking care of my E2 because my sensitive nipples did not come back. I’ll try to research Nolva a bit more…

I think I am very sensitive to aromotaze and hoping dropping bf coupled with other things will help me feel better and make better gainz both on and off cycle

I have a few side effects other than buildup of fatty adipose around my waist. The worst is my respiratory system sucks!!! I have NO cardio. I can get through heavy weight workouts but anything that taxes my cardio kills me like crazy (high rep squats…FML)
I also have some sexual sides. I get horny like crazy and have no problem getting hard every night or onca but sometimes I’ll get a bit soft when having sex and have a hard time cumming (I think this related to the cardio tho…I never have this problem if I’m by myself but I get really out of breath when I’m feeding it to the GF and it is hard to keep going unless I’m close enough) I never go limp though, I’ll just need to slow up but I still think this is related to Estro??? I also can’t cum twice with a few hrs…I can get hard but there is NO desire

I think after I get everything sorted my next cycle will be Test Prop, maybe some Mast (when I’m REALLY lean) and Anavar to wrap up the last 4-6 weeks


#9

I personally hate using the skin fold calipers and always had trouble effectively monitoring my diet. I recently purchased the Fitbit Aria scale and it uploads all of my stats to an app on my iphone. I am sure the BF% isn’t exactly correct but its close and I think it really helps me figure out my diet etc.


#10

[quote]Manofclay wrote:
I personally hate using the skin fold calipers and always had trouble effectively monitoring my diet. I recently purchased the Fitbit Aria scale and it uploads all of my stats to an app on my iphone. I am sure the BF% isn’t exactly correct but its close and I think it really helps me figure out my diet etc. [/quote]

For myself I haven’t had any success being even remotely close to an actual bf % that could be considered repeatable with any type of scale readings. I’ve seen readings jump as much as 4% in half a day because hydration or weighing more throughout the day

I think the skinfold caliper can give you some idea as to wether you are getting leaner by measuring fat around the midsection

Tape measure is useful too when looking to make gainz. Hopefully you maintain most of your chest, arm, legs and calve size while your midsection shrinks


#11

I once tried one of those electronic bodyfat measure things that you hold once.

The fucking thing told me I was 30%! Cheeky bastard.


#12

[quote]Yogi wrote:
I once tried one of those electronic bodyfat measure things that you hold once.

The fucking thing told me I was 30%! Cheeky bastard.[/quote]

According to my scale that shows bf I was:
â?¢1st pic 176lbs @ 23% bf
â?¢2nd pic 176lbs @ 26% bf
â?¢3rd pic 185lbs @ 32% bf
Now I know I’m not lean but…JEEZUS!


#13

It wasn’t easy but my E2 is in FINALLY in range and I’m ready to do another blast in September

Let me tell anyone suffering from getting E in check… It IS night and day! I feel like a different person :slight_smile:

I’m sure most on here are seasoned vets and don’t need any help from me but I’ll share my Estradial struggles hoping it may help some other poor souls like me

I couldn’t differentiate if I had high or low E based on “symptoms” so I relied on bloodwork every couple weeks to monitor if I was making progress. My AI was dosed at .5mg ED which made me worry I would possibly dip too low

Increasing my AI never worked to get my E2 under control (who knows, maybe my shit is underdosed or fake? FFS)

What I found was the only thing that worked best for me was:

â?¢Cardio - to both lower bf and condition myself. I read an article on lethargy being a contributor on Estrogen conversion. Whether this is scientificalky proven or not I can’t say but it felt like it worked for me
â?¢DIM - used twice a day. “Miracle” drug in my opinion
â?¢Ground Flax - recommended by my naturopath to bind to Estrogens and carry out of my body

It took me something like 4-6 weeks to get in ideal range.

I’m waiting another month before blasting as I’m slowly lowering my AI disages and trying to gain natty as I feel REALLY good now that my E2 is in range

I’ll post pics and updates in weeks to follow

Anyone with anything to add please feel free

I will be cycling:

Weeks 1-16 Test Cyp - 600mgs/week
Weeks 1-12 Deca - 300mgs/ week
Weeks 10-16 Anavar - 60-80mgs ED
AI - Arimidex (dosage depends on bloodwork)
Caber or Prami (waiting to hear back from supplier)

Currently

182lbs at 12% bf
Incline Bench 225 x 5 x 5
Deadlifts 315 x 5 x 5 (I’ve got more in the tank just trying to be diligent with my progression)
Front Squats 185 x 15 reps (ASTG and steady pace…no pausing between reps)

Lol…I’m not a beast or a seasoned vet in this venture but I fawking LUV it. I would’ve never considered cycling if I wasn’t on TRT for life. I may not even cycle too often as I feel I can make progress with my healthy T levels.we’ll see, I am just experimenting slowly and seem to be able to maintain my gainz after my low dosed cycles

Macros are still in debate. Something like:

Pro - 240-270gs
Fats - 75-90gs
Carbs - 350-550gs (afraid of getting fat and E2 getting out of control. Will prob up Protein if I’m not getting enough cal’s to grow)


#14

Started my 2nd cycle

Currently 5’ 9" 185lbs at roughly 15% bf (skinfold measurement)

Week 1-8 300mgs Deca
Week 1-8 600mgs Test Cyp
Week 8-10 400mg Deca
Week 8-14 800mg Test Cyp
.5mg EOD Arimidex
Bromo on hand (couldn’t Find a liable source for Caber. I don’t ask anyone for legit internet sources as this seems to be taboo on most forums and against rules)

  • i’ll keep a close eye on my E2, prog and prolactin levels

I’m in week 4 and I can feel it kicking in (strength shot up and pumps are MUCH greater) I’m pushing to get up 195lbs with minimal fat gain over the next 6-8 weeks

6 days a week carb cycling
300gs Protein
100gs Fat
300gs Carbs (timed around workout)
7th day I’ll up the carbs to 450-500gs

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Purely experimental. I’m sure others may have different opinions on this based on their experiences but my personal thought is I will give it everything I’ve got, measure the results and determine from there

Note - I was hoping to have a little bit more lean games while cruising on TRT but I have been swamped with work duties and working night and day which has affected my nutrition… I admit this is an excuse but I was happy to maintain all my gains from my last cycle a few months ago. I still eat solid and I train my ass off I just cheated a few too many meals throughout the weeks to get to the lower body fat percentage that I was aiming

Anyways, I will try to keep this log updated over the next couple months. Please feel free to share any thoughts as I’ve respected a lot of the posts from most of the guys who frequent the site


#15

Start of 5th week
Scale says 186.5 after a piss first thing in the am
Fighting a nasty respiratory the last 3 weeks now. I’m able to hit my squat and deadlift numbers I want but it would be nice if this would clear up and I can breath fuller on my high rep days
Not much to report on sides other than horny as hell. NO Deca dick here. It takes a little longer to blow my load but I have no prob maintaining my erections. My loads seem to be diminishing quite a bit but I don’t think that matters any