T Nation

Crossfit and Westside Barbell


#1

was wanting a idea of how to incorporate westside while doing crossfit yes you read that right keep the sarcastic comments to your self probably the better question would be how to use west side for your olympic lifts with bands and chains i look at Crossfit as Gpp work like conditioning i just love the competition aspect of it maybe wods in A.M and speed work at night for my lifts? thanks for the serious answers ahead of time open to all advice


#2

[quote]JTO3221 wrote:
was wanting a idea of how to incorporate westside while doing crossfit yes you read that right keep the sarcastic comments to your self probably the better question would be how to use west side for your olympic lifts with bands and chains i look at Crossfit as Gpp work like conditioning i just love the competition aspect of it maybe wods in A.M and speed work at night for my lifts? thanks for the serious answers ahead of time open to all advice[/quote]

Don’t do WODs.

No seriously, don’t use Westside bands and chains for olympic lifts.

The point of WODs is what? metabolic conditioning yes? That’s why they call the stuff “met-cons” right?

If you want to be strong, keep your strength training as STRENGTH training, and do your WODs at another time in the day or on other days. Most crossfitters I have seen, coached in the olympic lifts, or otherwise been around do not understand this concept.

It’s not enough to do “10 singles C & J” before your WOD. That’s a warm up, not strength training. You have to actually dedicate time to getting strong.

And don’t use bands and chains for olympic lifts. I’ll bet you 1000 dollars your problem is technique in the lifts, or lack of squat and pulling strength. Bands and chains are only useful for squat and pull strength.

Besides, bands and chains mess with the timing of the olympic lifts which is an absolutely critical element to nail consistently. It is also the element most effected by technical problems. So you really, absolutely, positively DON’T want to do bands and chains for your olympic lifts.


#3

If you’re not strong, speed work is going to do shit for you. You have a basic idea of splitting WOD and training, but you don’t need speed work, you need strength and hypertrophy work.


#4

Do strength work 3-4 days per week focusing on the following in no particular order:

Squats and variations (front, back, overhead, highbar, lowbar)
Deadlifts
Snatch
C & J
Overhead pressing

Then do 2-3 metcon based WOD’s per week, mixing in the gymnastic moves, etc. As you near a crossfit comp, back off the strength focus and ramp up the conditioning. Conditioning comes quick, strength takes a long time to build.


#5

I’ll ditto what 'stang said. Conditioning is a quick process as long as you don’t let it lapse completely. So too is skill work (stuff like handstand pushups etc), again when you don’t let it lapse completely. And sometimes even then if you’ve gotten night and day stronger.

Strength takes forever and shitloads of pain to build. So start paying your dues now, and reap the rewards later.

I’ll say this as well, “bodybuilding” work–meaning hypertrophy style sets of 8-12–is much much better suited to maintaining localized muscular endurance than only low rep training. However if you are doing endurance based WODs 2 or 3 times a week it isn’t as helpful. It is still helpful for strength building on weak body parts.

I would say 4 days a week is minimum if you take strength gains seriously, even for crossfit competitions.

I also stand by the statement I made earlier that your olympic lift problems are likely very much technique issues in large part. That MUST be fixed as well.


#6

I think some more info from OP would be good.

Dude, we need an idea why you want to do this besides “I think it sounds cool”

  • are you planning to compete in PL, CrossFit, both, or neither?

  • what is your PRIMARY goal? (Note: “being big, strong, lean, and faster than a cheetah” is not a primary goal)

  • why do you think adding chains or bands to Olympic lifts is a good idea?

I don’t think CrossFit and Westside principles are impossible to merge…but I think you have a very flawed approach in doing so. I’d have done it roughly the way Ecchastang suggested as well.


#7

theres a article on doing so on the crossfit journal called conjugate crossfit


#8

The thought of a banded snatch is terrifying.


#9

Barbell shrugged (a CrossFit centered channel) interviewed Louie Simmons. Haven’t watched but I am sure they discuss Westside and CrossFit at some point.


#10

[quote]brohymn2 wrote:
theres a article on doing so on the crossfit journal called conjugate crossfit[/quote]

This. Chris Mason wrote it, and it’s pretty spot on.


#11

[quote]Jisoku wrote:
The thought of a banded snatch is terrifying.[/quote]
Yeah, I prefer just a normal snatch.


#12

[quote]JTO3221 wrote:
was wanting a idea of how to incorporate westside while doing crossfit yes you read that right keep the sarcastic comments to your self probably the better question would be how to use west side for your olympic lifts with bands and chains i look at Crossfit as Gpp work like conditioning i just love the competition aspect of it maybe wods in A.M and speed work at night for my lifts? thanks for the serious answers ahead of time open to all advice[/quote]

Google Crossfit Conjugate. The sweatshop already has programming available for you, it’s like 50$ a month or something.

They do some really neat stuff.


#13

so lets say i do crossfit in the A.M strength training in the P.M would you reccomend maybe doing the warm up and the WoD in the morning then west side at night as well as olympic lifts or in the morning if i were to do alot of weighted sled pulls,wheel barrows and etc. then maybe the full crossfit workout at night including the stregth could someone maybe give me a genereal template on how my training would look


#14

[quote]JTO3221 wrote:
so lets say i do crossfit in the A.M strength training in the P.M would you reccomend maybe doing the warm up and the WoD in the morning then west side at night as well as olympic lifts or in the morning if i were to do alot of weighted sled pulls,wheel barrows and etc. then maybe the full crossfit workout at night including the stregth could someone maybe give me a genereal template on how my training would look [/quote]

[quote]ActivitiesGuy wrote:
I think some more info from OP would be good.

Dude, we need an idea why you want to do this besides “I think it sounds cool.”

  • are you planning to compete in PL, CrossFit, both, or neither?

  • what is your PRIMARY goal? (Note: “being big, strong, lean, and faster than a cheetah” is not a primary goal)

[/quote]


#15

[quote]JTO3221 wrote:
so lets say i do crossfit in the A.M strength training in the P.M would you reccomend maybe doing the warm up and the WoD in the morning then west side at night as well as olympic lifts or in the morning if i were to do alot of weighted sled pulls,wheel barrows and etc. then maybe the full crossfit workout at night including the stregth could someone maybe give me a genereal template on how my training would look [/quote]

Again, we need to know more about your specific lifts, specific goals. Are you working mostly on a squat? Or are you working on your C & J? Or deadlift? Or what??

Do strength training when you feel freshest and most energized on average. I hate mornings, so if I train in the morning it is light, and evening is heavy. Some people are the opposite.

For your purposes olympic lifts with strength training is probably best. I don’t know what the template they used on the website is since I don’t have a subscription there, but if your goal is strength then 1) train strength when you feel best in the day and 2) keep your conditioning separate from strength sessions. So no, don’t do wheelbarrows, farmer’s walks or sled pulls with strength training. If you do them do them in the morning.

Dude, honestly you do not need to do that if you’re doing WODs in the mornings.

Crossfit people always get worried about not doing enough conditioning shit. It drives me nuts. I train a chick who is a crossfit coach in the olympic lifts 5 days a week. Our strength sessions last on average 2 hours. We do absolutely no conditioning work at all because she does the WODs 3 days a week on average. She’s doing just fine without conditioning. DO NOT add extra conditioning.

WODs 3 days a week, no other conditioning. At all. Unless you like to jog to work some soreness out or something, that is not conditioning that is “loosening up”. Not my thing but some people (notably fighters I’ve worked with) like it.

A general guideline would be total time spent on WODs and conditioning are not to exceed 30 minutes x 3 days a week (i.e. 1.5 hours in a week). This does not include warm-ups obviously.

You can peak conditioning in 6-8 weeks max. Strength takes years to build.


#16

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

You can peak conditioning in 6-8 weeks max. Strength takes years to build.[/quote]
Exactly the point I tried to make earlier. Most Crossfitters don’t get that. The ones that do win competitions. Look at Matt Fraser, who just won the open and got second in the games last year. He is very new to crossfit, but was a oly lifter and a strength athlete before.


#17

What 'stang said. “was an oly lifter and strength athlete before”.
Depending on how he programmed his training, he may have been able to maintain his strength.

Otherwise, you can be really strong or really well conditioned…or mediocre in the middle.


#18

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

You can peak conditioning in 6-8 weeks max. Strength takes years to build.[/quote]
Exactly the point I tried to make earlier. Most Crossfitters don’t get that. The ones that do win competitions. Look at Matt Fraser, who just won the open and got second in the games last year. He is very new to crossfit, but was a oly lifter and a strength athlete before. [/quote]

It would be pretty funny if they threw a curve ball in the crossfit games and made people run a marathon. You’re supposed to be ready for anything right? It would be interesting to see which competitors do good enough in all ranges (including the extreme) of the strength spectrum. I would still expect the athletes that lean a bit more towards strength to win, probably MMA type athletes.

Edit: Just thought of something…maybe it’s geared more towards strength to get more sales?


#19

[quote]lift206 wrote:

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:

[quote]Aragorn wrote:

You can peak conditioning in 6-8 weeks max. Strength takes years to build.[/quote]
Exactly the point I tried to make earlier. Most Crossfitters don’t get that. The ones that do win competitions. Look at Matt Fraser, who just won the open and got second in the games last year. He is very new to crossfit, but was a oly lifter and a strength athlete before. [/quote]

It would be pretty funny if they threw a curve ball in the crossfit games and made people run a marathon. You’re supposed to be ready for anything right? It would be interesting to see which competitors do good enough in all ranges (including the extreme) of the strength spectrum. I would still expect the athletes that lean a bit more towards strength to win, probably MMA type athletes.

Edit: Just thought of something…maybe it’s geared more towards strength to get more sales?[/quote]
Two years ago they had a two part event that was a 2000k row and a half marathon row, 21,097m. Thats pretty insane IMO.


#20

[quote]Ecchastang wrote:
Two years ago they had a two part event that was a 2000k row and a half marathon row, 21,097m. Thats pretty insane IMO. [/quote]

That does sound brutal. I’ve never seen the endurance portion and didn’t think it would be that intense. In the case of a half marathon row, is 8 weeks still enough time to prepare for something like that assuming you maintain a minimum level of conditioning?

I have read about Alex Viada who has impressive strength and conditioning. He seems like a good example to learn from. I wonder if he competed in Crossfit too.