[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Oh, and yes 1 + 1 = 3 when you talk about the fabled synergistic stack. Adding a class I to a class II, howecver, only once the class I has become active in your system, which is why the ‘oral kickstart’ should be kicked to the curb, IMO. Unless of course you really are that impatient, lol.
Bushy[/quote]
Hence this go around I abandoned the traditional kickstart approach with dbol and I’m waiting a few weeks after I started Test E to kick in the dbol
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
Now improved nitrogen retention is very useful for facilitating increased protein synthesis but only if you have a class I in the stack, to signal the nucleus to turn the extra nitrogen into proteins.
Bushy[/quote]
AHA! here in lies the key.^ listen here my young padawan as yoda bushy molds you.
Great info! 
Seriously, this was very enlightening.
ok, so anavar is class I, but are there any other oral class I steroids? oral primo?
I guess even without the class I in the stack, using a class II for longer periods would lead to greater muscle gains, but indirectly, as a result of increased strength and increased nitrogen retention.
I think I see a turanabol/anadrol/anavar stack in my near future…
I have done the winstrol/anadrol two weekers twice. Great strength and busted trough some plateus. However, I seem to get creaky joints for about a week and a half after I stop. Maybe I need to run anadrol a few days PAST stopping the winny? Or maybe I should up the drol in relation to the winny dosage.
Anyway, since tbol doesn’t aromatize anadrol shouldn’t produce too many sides with tbol, correct? I realise winny actually may be countering some of the anadrol sides though.
Sounds good.
[quote]bushidobadboy wrote:
I find this whole thread puzzling, since the answer seems so obvious to me, that I can’t figure out why no one else has mentioned it. I mean I thought it was ‘written in stone’, so to speak.
Most orals are class II, and the only ones that are class I are hellish expensive and are run at low doses.
Class II steroids do not stimulate the nuclei of a muscle fiber to transcript more DNA and therefore make more protein to enlarge the fiber.
Class II steroids simply pump you up and/or potentiate the nervous system for quick strength gains. All this does is facilitate more intense training sessions, but doesn’t directly hypertrophy the muscles.
Only a class I steroid will increase the amount of structural proteins in the muscle fiber.
Oh, and yes 1 + 1 = 3 when you talk about the fabled synergistic stack. Adding a class I to a class II, howecver, is why the ‘oral kickstart’ should be kicked to the curb, IMO. Unlonly once the class I has become active in your system, which ess of course you really are that impatient, lol.
Bushy[/quote]
You could add O-Primo/Anavar(higher-AR affinity) with Dianabol/Anadrol/Winstrol(lower-AR affinity) and still theoretically achieve this synergy. As you said earlier though the class I’s are expensive as hell making them impractical for some people.
Are you guys saying that Anavar alone is a better mass drug than Dianabol or Anadrol alone, at comparable doses, after an intelligent PCT?
I can see it being disheartening losing 15 lbs after gaining 30 on a Dianabol or Anadrol cycle. But it’s still better than gaining 10 lbs on Anavar and keeping all of it. Again this is after doing proper PCT. I’d be interested in hearing some real world feedback comparing the two.
I am not reading all of the responses.
Orals make demands on the P540 liver enzyme pathways. This reduces the ability of E to be removed from the blood, using the P450 pathways.
Simply put, you can create an estrogen problem.
Other drugs, alcohol and grapefruit juice all work negatively on the P450 pathways.
Orals are now often regarded as harmful and often ineffective.