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Critique My Upper/Lower Body Split

So I decided to do an upper/lower body split it been pretty tough but so far so good. tell me what you think:

mon:upper 5x5

  1. db military press
  2. bench press
  3. dips
  4. lat pulldown
  5. seated row
  6. hammer curl
  7. tricep pushdown

tues: lower 5x5

  1. squat
  2. dealift
  3. lunges
  4. calf raises
  5. leg raises

thurs: upper 4x12

  1. flat benchpress
  2. incline bench press
  3. chest supported row
  4. close grip lat pulldown
  5. ez bar curl
  6. military press
  7. tricep rope pulldown

fri: lower 4x12

  1. leg press
  2. leg extension
  3. led curls
  4. dinkey calf raises
  5. decline abs

the exercises are not really in the order done.

any opinions would be appreciated.

B-

Some of your days look alot tougher than others. Don’t you want to spread it around a little?

You can start by putting those 2 big exercises on 2 different days (squats & deadlifts. And maybe toss those leg extensions out the window. Those only give you bigger looking knees working the vastus lateralis I think its called.

Alot of good ideas there. Clean it up a little.

[EDIT] Actually its the vastus medialis mainly. I don’t like leg extensions unless you already have well developed thighs, this will throw the proportions off and work the lower part of the thigh around the knee area. Deads and squats will be much better than those movements like extensions and curls for overall development. I would stick with them and dump those other exercises until you need them. Some Romanian deads I prefer to curls for the hams… just an idea

thanks for the input…

mon:upper 5x5

  1. db military press vert press
  2. bench press hor press
  3. dips hor/vert press
  4. lat pulldown vert pull
  5. seated row hor pull
  6. hammer curl
  7. tricep pushdown

tues: lower 5x5

  1. squat quad dom
  2. dealift hip dom
  3. lunges quad dom
  4. calf raises
  5. leg raises hip flexion

thurs: upper 4x12

  1. flat benchpress hor press
  2. incline bench press hor/vert press
  3. chest supported row hor pull
  4. close grip lat pulldown vert pull
  5. ez bar curl
  6. military press vert press
  7. tricep rope pulldown

fri: lower 4x12

  1. leg press quad dom
  2. leg extension quad dom
  3. led curls hip dom
  4. donkey calf raises
  5. decline abs trunk flexion

horizontal press 10 + 8 sets
horizontal pull 5 + 4
vertical pull 5 + 4
vertical press 5
quad dominant 10 + 8
hip dominant 5 + 4
abdominal flexion 4
hip flexion 5

In short if you donnot have a shoulder problem you soon will (18 sets of benching and only 9 sets of rowing) that is twice the volume. Same with quad and hip dominant exercises 18 sets of quads while only 9 sets of hams. Basically if these ratios were reversed along with the sequencing (doing abs and rowing FIRST in the workout) it wouldnot be a bad workout.

[quote]timmwwaa wrote:
mon:upper 5x5

  1. db military press vert press
  2. bench press hor press
  3. dips hor/vert press
  4. lat pulldown vert pull
  5. seated row hor pull
  6. hammer curl
  7. tricep pushdown

tues: lower 5x5

  1. squat quad dom
  2. dealift hip dom
  3. lunges quad dom
  4. calf raises
  5. leg raises hip flexion

thurs: upper 4x12

  1. flat benchpress hor press
  2. incline bench press hor/vert press
  3. chest supported row hor pull
  4. close grip lat pulldown vert pull
  5. ez bar curl
  6. military press vert press
  7. tricep rope pulldown

fri: lower 4x12

  1. leg press quad dom
  2. leg extension quad dom
  3. led curls hip dom
  4. donkey calf raises
  5. decline abs trunk flexion

horizontal press 10 + 8 sets
horizontal pull 5 + 4
vertical pull 5 + 4
vertical press 5
quad dominant 10 + 8
hip dominant 5 + 4
abdominal flexion 4
hip flexion 5

In short if you donnot have a shoulder problem you soon will (18 sets of benching and only 9 sets of rowing) that is twice the volume. Same with quad and hip dominant exercises 18 sets of quads while only 9 sets of hams. Basically if these ratios were reversed along with the sequencing (doing abs and rowing FIRST in the workout) it wouldnot be a bad workout.
[/quote]

how would u set it up…I know the workout was a little off but I just started upper/lower body splits and I want them to be tough. I use to do body part splits and fullbody.

[quote]determined88 wrote:
So I decided to do an upper/lower body split it been pretty tough but so far so good. tell me what you think:

mon:upper 5x5

  1. db military press
  2. bench press
  3. dips
  4. lat pulldown
  5. seated row
  6. hammer curl
  7. tricep pushdown

tues: lower 5x5

  1. squat
  2. dealift
  3. lunges
  4. calf raises
  5. leg raises

thurs: upper 4x12

  1. flat benchpress
  2. incline bench press
  3. chest supported row
  4. close grip lat pulldown
  5. ez bar curl
  6. military press
  7. tricep rope pulldown

fri: lower 4x12

  1. leg press
  2. leg extension
  3. led curls
  4. dinkey calf raises
  5. decline abs

the exercises are not really in the order done.

any opinions would be appreciated.

[/quote]

In terms of balance, it’s very out of proportion. Add up the overall total of kg’s lifted on exercises that lead to internal rotation of the shoulder (db military press+bench press+dips+Lat pulldown) eg 5x5x70kg=1750
Then add up exercises that lead to external rotation of shoulder (Seated Row+Dead lift)
There’s going to be a major imbalance in numbers there…Which if done for long enough will lead to shoulder imbalances…
Your going to have to add more horizontal pulling or drop some chest exercises…Good luck.

[quote]determined88 wrote:
how would u set it up…I know the workout was a little off but I just started upper/lower body splits and I want them to be tough. I use to do body part splits and full body.
[/quote]

Check out the achieves on what Ian King has written. He has some excellent upper lower splits that I think you’ll like.

Upper/lower splits are my favorite! I superset most everything and get done in one hour. I substitute other variations for muscle groups (pull ups for lat pulldown, etc.).

Most important, I listen to my body. When I’m worn down, I go lighter; when I’m strong, I go heavier. I always try to increase my reps or weight in at least one exercise every day. This is my routine.

By varying the rep/set scheme, I don’t wear myself down more on one day than another. It’s variably constant every day, but not taxing. I do all the heavy stuff in the beginning, because that’s the primary focus on that day. Everything else is almost support work for the main lifts. Enjoy. Try it.

wed: upper
1a. Military press 5x5 90% RM
1b. pull ups 5xfailure
2a. flat bench press 3x10 60-75% RM
2b. inverted incline bench lat raises 3x10 60-75% RM
3a. db hammer curls 3x10…
3b. triceps pushdowns 3x10…
4a. horiz db rows 2x15 50% RM
4b. shrugs 2x15 50% RM

thurs: lower
1a. squat 5x5
1b. walking lunges
2a. deadlift 3x10 60-75% RM
2b. calf raises
3. good mornings 3x10 60-75% RM

sat:upper
1a. incline bench press 5x5 90%RM
1b. external rotations 5x5 90%RM
2a. military press 3x10 60-75% RM
2b. lat pulldown 3x10 60-75% RM
3a. hammer curl 5x5 90%RM
3b. tricep pushdown 5x5 90%RM
4. flat bench explosive 2x12 or 3x10 60-75% RM

sun: lower

  1. deadlift 5x5…
  2. good mornings 5x5…
  3. squat 3x10…
  4. crossover lunges

Don’t know what your goals are exactly but it seems your overdoing it a bit.

If your working 5x5 intensely and doing dips and bench on one day you will probably burn out pretty fast. This goes double or maybe triple for squats and deads.

I would either alternate the bench/dips and the squat/deads each week or even better in my opinion would be to concentrate on one for a month or so at a time.

I would also drop the flat bench on Thursday after doing flat bench on Monday and drop the inclines if that Monday was a dip workout.

Man just make it simple bro. everyone trys to get so damn complicated and thinks they have to do every exercise know to man.

how about base each upper day on two big moves and do them do them RIGHT with intensity then hit a few assiatance moves

like

upper day 1
Bench ( of some variety mix it up from week to week DB, incline, decline, etc etc)
Horizontal row
( again mix it up)
then hit bis’s, tris, chest and shoulders with something real quick

upper Day two
Horizontal Push and Pull
(again mix it up vary it)
Then different assiatnce for the same body parts above

dont forget some shoulder prehab like external rotations and or shoulder horns.

legs easy base then on squat and dl of some form one day for each. then assistance and abs. Id also venture to say throw in a few sets of a unilateral move each day.

Like
squat
lunges
abs
reverse hyper call it a day
maybe a leg curl high volume maybe

and

dead
step ups
abs
GHR
maybe a few leg presses to hit the quads

simple effective get the base the few exercises the core for upper the two big moves the lower the one big move then fill in the rest and vary it as needed.

Phill

good points I guess I should state my goals first well I am about 5’10, around 180 looking to get down to 170. I know…I know…this is a bodybuilding site but I Feel comfortable at this weight. I love running and swimming and would like to try a triatholon someday. As for my diet I will be following t-dawg 2.0, the weight lifting is where I have a problem getting it together.

Also I am not sure on whether I should do an upper’lower body split or body part split.

Working out the legs often gets me sore making me unable to perform my cardio. so I was considering doing a body part split and doing legs on friday leaving me with 2 days to let them rest.

I don’t recommend using 5x5 for more than 3-4 exercises per workout. If you are truly lifting with all you have for 5x5 on squats, benches, deadlifts, rows, pullups, etc., then there is no way you could apply it to more than 4 exercises in one workout with the intensity needed.

If you are going to use 4 exercises on a 5x5 rep scheme, it’s best to superset exercises and do one upper body exercise with one lower body exercise in order to get the recovery you’ll need.

Otherwise, 2-3 exercises with 5x5 is plenty! Then do a few assistance exercises for 2-3 sets of 6-12 reps.

how does this split routine look:

Monday: Chest/Biceps/Calves

Chest
1.Flat Bench Presses: 5 Sets x 8 Reps
2.Incline Dumbbell Presses: 4 Sets x8 Reps
3.Flat Dumbbell Flyes: 3 Sets x 8 Reps
4.Close Grip Bench Presses: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
5. pec dec: 2 x failure

Biceps
1.Straight Barbell Curls: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
2.Close EZ Bar Curls: 4 Sets x 8 Reps

Calves
1.Standing Calf Raises: 4 Sets x 12 Reps
2.Seated Calf Raises: 4 Sets x 12 Reps

Tuesday: Shoulders/Triceps/Abs

Shoulders
1.Rear Military Presses: 5 Sets x 12 Reps
2.Front Military Presses: 5 Sets x 12 Reps
3.Bent-Over Laterals: 4 Sets x 12 Reps

Triceps
1.overhead db extension: 4 x 8 Reps
2.Dips: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
3.Tricep v-bar pushdown : 4 Sets x 8 Reps

Abs
1.cable side crunch: 4 Sets x 12 Reps
2.Bent Knee Leg Lifts: 4 Sets x 12 Reps
3.decline Sit-Ups: 4 Sets x 12 Reps

Wednesday: OFF

Thursday: Back/Calves

Back
1.seated row: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
2.Reverse Barbell Rows: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
3.wide grip lat pulldown: 4 x 8 Reps
4.close grip lat pulldown: 4 x 8 Reps
5.chest supported row: 3 Sets x 8 Reps

Calves
1.donkey Calf Raises: 4 Sets x 12 Reps
2.Seated Calf Raises: 4 Sets x 12 Reps

Friday:Legs/Abs

Legs
1.Squats: 5 Sets x 8 Reps
2.Leg Presses: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
3.Deadlifts: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
4.Leg Extensions: 4 Sets x 8 Reps
5.Leg Curls: 4 Sets x 8 Reps

Abs
woodchoppers: 4 Sets x 12 Reps
Bent Knee Leg Lifts: 4 Sets x 12 Reps
decline Sit-Ups: 4 Sets x 12 Reps

Saturday: off

Sunday: OFF

Christ! I think you got worse.

First off all , you’re doing to many sets. I recommend never doing more than 12 sets for anything, if you are… then your intensity level is for shit.

Second, You still have too many exercises, drop the Bullshit!

3rd, I have a training regiment where I do 3 sets fro the muscle and I garuante its 3 times more intense than 20 sets of your routine.

Stick to the basics for most bodyparts. Your leg day is overloaded. Your calves will never grow with that routine.

Abs, if your doing only “12” decline sit-ups, your intensity level must be almost dormant or your strebgth level is very low.

For calves use Donkey Raises in sets of 50 and 25, Standing raises in dropsets and rest-pauses, or daily bodyweight standing raises.

Clean it up, shorten it, and balance it out. Too much non-sense in there.

I could write a better routine for you using about 5 or 6 total exercises. But keep trying.

[quote]Go heavy fool wrote:
Christ! I think you got worse.

First off all , you’re doing to many sets. I recommend never doing more than 12 sets for anything, if you are… then your intensity level is for shit.

Second, You still have too many exercises, drop the Bullshit!

3rd, I have a training regiment where I do 3 sets fro the muscle and I garuante its 3 times more intense than 20 sets of your routine.

Stick to the basics for most bodyparts. Your leg day is overloaded. Your calves will never grow with that routine.

Abs, if your doing only “12” decline sit-ups, your intensity level must be almost dormant or your strebgth level is very low.

For calves use Donkey Raises in sets of 50 and 25, Standing raises in dropsets and rest-pauses, or daily bodyweight standing raises.

Clean it up, shorten it, and balance it out. Too much non-sense in there.

I could write a better routine for you using about 5 or 6 total exercises. But keep trying.[/quote]

lol…actually I did not put this one together I saw the split on animal pak.com

alright keep in mind I am trying to lose some fat.

How does this routine look? I will be following cw TBT:

Mon:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

tues:

  1. 45 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles (shoulders and chest)

wed:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

thurs:

  1. 45 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles
    ( shoulders and chest)

fri:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

sat:

  1. 30 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles
    (shoulders and chest)

sun:
rest

[quote]determined88 wrote:
alright keep in mind I am trying to lose some fat.

How does this routine look? I will be following cw TBT:

Mon:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

tues:

  1. 45 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles (shoulders and chest)

wed:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

thurs:

  1. 45 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles
    ( shoulders and chest)

fri:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

sat:

  1. 30 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles
    (shoulders and chest)

sun:
rest
[/quote]

Perfect!

Ya see, thats all you had to do… just read a few articles and put together your own plan.

As an experienced guy myself. I only do my own routines that I make up… but I get ideas out of here sometimes. If I was new. I would just follow a CW guideline and build some strength for awhile. Then I would find some of CT’s tricks for phasing in some hypertrophy.

My problem is I’ve done everything known to man, for me its all about effort. I know what works for me and what doesn’t after years of trial & error and experimenting.

Most newbs just need to lift for awile and experiment.

Get strong, get big, then get serious… I’ve been stuck in phase 3 for awhile, you neverleave this phase. I wish I was a newb. I wouldn’t have wasted alot of time doing things wrong for so many years.

Gotta learn somehow and sometime… nothing to it but to do it, right?

thanks for all the help guys

[quote]determined88 wrote:
alright keep in mind I am trying to lose some fat.

How does this routine look? I will be following cw TBT:

Mon:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

tues:

  1. 45 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles (shoulders and chest)

wed:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

thurs:

  1. 45 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles
    ( shoulders and chest)

fri:

  1. tbt
  2. 30 min cardio

sat:

  1. 30 min cardio
  2. 100 reps to bigger muscles
    (shoulders and chest)

sun:
rest
[/quote]

Yes I agree much better as long as you follow it dont go and start adding a bunch of crap to it the TBT that is.

Do the few exercises and really do them learn how to bring intensity up and get the damn job done no need to lolly gag and do 1000 exercises in the day for 100 sets each if you do a few and really do them.

then later after LOTS of time learning and following good programs seeing how you respond take that knowledge that you have band make a program that fits you.

yea I was thinking of either doing push-ups or bench press for chest and lateral raises for the shoulders.