T Nation

Criticism of PL Program and Diet

I made a post earlier in Starting Strength: The guide about how I stalled. Since then, I have moved to this program that I am currently using to train with a couple powerlifters that I have met and trained with for about a month, both of whom are worlds more experienced than I am, both having trained for decades.

Here is the program with slight modifications that I’ve made:

Monday: My friend described this as a bodybuilding day where you “go for the pump”
Standing Overhead Dumbbell press 3x8 light
Incline Dumbbell Bench press 3x8 light
Chest Dips 3x8 bodyweight
Machine/cable rows light
Leg press 3x10 light
Back extensions 3x8 light
Decline crunches 3x8 light

Thursday: This is the only day I actually meet with them now, because it’s more helpful to me to have criticism on the squat and the deadlift than on the bench
Squat: 3x5 heavy
Deadlift 1x5 heavy

Friday: (I met with them a couple times for Bench day in the beginning so I would know what to do)
Flat Bench 3x8 heavy (Recently dropped down to 3x6)
Close Grip Bench: 2x6 with a pause at the bottom of each rep, lifted explosively
Chins 3x6

So I welcome criticism on this program as it stands. I don’t meet with them on days that aren’t thursday right now, so I’d be more likely to switch things up when I am not actually meeting with them.

All that being said, program criticism won’t help unless you have an idea of what my diet is like and what my goals are. My goals are strength oriented, which is why I am training with powerlifters, though I will probably return to physique oriented goals once I feel I have paid my strength dues and put on an appreciable foundation.

As for my diet, I’m looking for something that aids progressive muscle gain, without adding too much fat. I’m not afraid of packing on some fat to get stronger, but I feel my diet as it stands has made me a bit bulky around the middle, and not enough everywhere else.

Here is a sample day from my diet (which I fear may be too high in fat):
(milk is always 2%)
Breakfast
4 hardboiled eggs
spinach and carrot salad
1 large slice of whole wheat bread
1 large glass of milk

Mid morning snack:
1/2 cup of cottage cheese
1 cup of blue berries or a piece of fruit
1 banana
1/4 cup of walnuts
1 large cup of milk

Lunch:
Plateful of tuna from dining hall
~1tbsp of mayonaise
~2tbsp of relish
2 normal cups of milk
Spinach and carrot salad
1 bowl of chili

During workout Shake: 20 g maltodextrin 20g dextrose 20g TEAMSKIP protein blend or Whey
Post Workout shake: 20 g maltodextrin 20g dextrose 20g TEAMSKIP protein blend or Whey

Teamskip is simply 1/3 whey 1/3 caesin and 1/3 egg white

Postworkout:
2 Breaded Buffalo Chicken Sandwiches from Wawa with lettuce, tomato, onion, bacon, and cheddar cheese.
2 Large glasses of milk

Bedtime: 20 g of teamskip protein with 1/2 serving of Superfood OR repeat of midmorning snack with carrots instead of banana walnuts and blueberries.

So there’s my diet as it stands right now. I’m open to ideas and criticisms on how to change this diet or the above program with respect to my goals of continuing to gain strength and muscle (secondary concern, but not unwelcome) without blowing up to be the michelin man. More generalized criticism of the program and diet are also welcome.

Some things that I thought of myself:

Adding in either a HIIT day on Sunday, or perhaps a WSFSB3 style jump day, or an LSD day!
Eating less bacon and cheddar cheese
Eating more fruit and or drinking less milk. (If this was your suggestion please help me make up for the lost protein this way.)
Supplementing with Creatine and BCAA to support possible lowering of caloric intake (started today with supplementation, but have not lowered calories)

I welcome criticism.

Looks like you’re aquinted with intensemuscle (from teh protein you have). I honestly would switch to a squat/bench/DL split.

Monday:
squat variation 1-5 rep range
leg press 3-10 rep range, or higher
leg curls/hammys however you like (no sldls)
leg extentions if you can handle them, rep range is your choice, I would stay high though.

Tuesday:
Bench variation 1-5 reps top set
overhead press variation top 5-8 rep set
rear delt flys or facepulls 10-15 rep sets
triceps your choice
(if you want to look pretty you can do some pec work too)

Thursday:
Deadlift variation work up to a triple or less
row variation top set of 6-10
Chin variation top set of 6-10
curls dealers choice
forarms your choice

Squat variations:
Low boxsquat, somewhat higher (but not too high) boxsquat, front squat, backsquat

Bench variation:
incline, flat, dumbell, floor press, decline

Deadlift variation:
rack pulls, deadlifts, SLDL, good morning, or if you really want to include cleans do them here

Hi Zephead,
Firstly,
Thanks a lot for the program recommendation. I imagine I’ll switch to a split like this after I’m done with the cycle I’m on right now. I can ask my friends what they think of a program like this versus the one I’m currently using.

Secondly, I’m not really familiar with intensemuscle, but I did check them out and they look interesting. I was actually planning on doing DC training once I get an appreciable amount of strength under my belt, and it looks like a good reference point. I’ve read the interview with dante on that site before actually. Thanks again

You need to get rid of the bodybuilding day altogether. If you must leave Thursday for both DL and squat, I would suggest hitting DL and squat on Monday as well (or variations), Tuesday doing your current Friday bench routine, the Friday doing variations and assistance for the exercises done on Tuesday. That gives you a basic upper lower split and will give you a more complete workout. As of right now you seem to be lacking any volume whatsoever. I’m reading 4 total sets on Thursday…

As far as the eating goes, eat more, but less crap. No breaded buffalo chicken sandwhiches, definitely no bacon. Less milk, more meat.

Hi Bay Pride,
I’m interested in how I might possibly implement your criticisms. I don’t want to squat or deadlift while I am not working with these guys because I really want to make sure my form is correct. I was doing rippetoe’s SS before I started this so I’m a little sketchy on squatting and deadlifting twice a week right now.

Also, I like that your proposed split has more volume, and my reaction was similar when they proposed the workout as it stands. It’s sort of evolving right now, and they did promise me more volume, so we’ll see how it goes.

As I see it right now I really only have 1 assistance exercise for bench, is zephead’s post a good reference for those exercises, or do you know of a more comprehensive reference? Thanks.

Milk doesn’t really bother my GI, and it has protein and carbs. Don’t I need both of those macronutrients to grow in size and strength? What’s the difference really between a small piece of meat with some fruit and a couple glasses of milk? What’s a reasonable accessible carb source besides milk that you would recommend? Also I normally eat a whole cup of cottage cheese, I miswrote.

Hope to hear from you soon.

[quote]anom1k wrote:
Hi Bay Pride,
I’m interested in how I might possibly implement your criticisms. I don’t want to squat or deadlift while I am not working with these guys because I really want to make sure my form is correct. I was doing rippetoe’s SS before I started this so I’m a little sketchy on squatting and deadlifting twice a week right now.

Also, I like that your proposed split has more volume, and my reaction was similar when they proposed the workout as it stands. It’s sort of evolving right now, and they did promise me more volume, so we’ll see how it goes.

As I see it right now I really only have 1 assistance exercise for bench, is zephead’s post a good reference for those exercises, or do you know of a more comprehensive reference? Thanks.

Milk doesn’t really bother my GI, and it has protein and carbs. Don’t I need both of those macronutrients to grow in size and strength? What’s the difference really between a small piece of meat with some fruit and a couple glasses of milk? What’s a reasonable accessible carb source besides milk that you would recommend? Also I normally eat a whole cup of cottage cheese, I miswrote.

Hope to hear from you soon.

[/quote]

If you want more bench assistance, have a RE press day.

[quote]zephead4747 wrote:
anom1k wrote:
Hi Bay Pride,
I’m interested in how I might possibly implement your criticisms. I don’t want to squat or deadlift while I am not working with these guys because I really want to make sure my form is correct. I was doing rippetoe’s SS before I started this so I’m a little sketchy on squatting and deadlifting twice a week right now.

Also, I like that your proposed split has more volume, and my reaction was similar when they proposed the workout as it stands. It’s sort of evolving right now, and they did promise me more volume, so we’ll see how it goes.

As I see it right now I really only have 1 assistance exercise for bench, is zephead’s post a good reference for those exercises, or do you know of a more comprehensive reference? Thanks.

Milk doesn’t really bother my GI, and it has protein and carbs. Don’t I need both of those macronutrients to grow in size and strength? What’s the difference really between a small piece of meat with some fruit and a couple glasses of milk? What’s a reasonable accessible carb source besides milk that you would recommend? Also I normally eat a whole cup of cottage cheese, I miswrote.

Hope to hear from you soon.

If you want more bench assistance, have a RE press day.
[/quote]

I don’t know what that is, can you explain?

[quote]anom1k wrote:
zephead4747 wrote:
anom1k wrote:
Hi Bay Pride,
I’m interested in how I might possibly implement your criticisms. I don’t want to squat or deadlift while I am not working with these guys because I really want to make sure my form is correct. I was doing rippetoe’s SS before I started this so I’m a little sketchy on squatting and deadlifting twice a week right now.

Also, I like that your proposed split has more volume, and my reaction was similar when they proposed the workout as it stands. It’s sort of evolving right now, and they did promise me more volume, so we’ll see how it goes.

As I see it right now I really only have 1 assistance exercise for bench, is zephead’s post a good reference for those exercises, or do you know of a more comprehensive reference? Thanks.

Milk doesn’t really bother my GI, and it has protein and carbs. Don’t I need both of those macronutrients to grow in size and strength? What’s the difference really between a small piece of meat with some fruit and a couple glasses of milk? What’s a reasonable accessible carb source besides milk that you would recommend? Also I normally eat a whole cup of cottage cheese, I miswrote.

Hope to hear from you soon.

If you want more bench assistance, have a RE press day.

I don’t know what that is, can you explain?[/quote]

Repetition effort. Pick a ben ch variation, I like dumbell and do a higher rep day, do this for all your pressing muscles. If you work back with press you do it for back too.

Ahh I get it now.
I guess that was sort of supposed to be the point of the “bodybuilding day,” which is really more like “assistance work day” but you think I should for a sort of max reps thing like WSFSB style? If it’s the same concept, let me know. So higher reps than 8 and different exercises? Thanks for explaining.

[quote]anom1k wrote:
Ahh I get it now.
I guess that was sort of supposed to be the point of the “bodybuilding day,” which is really more like “assistance work day” but you think I should for a sort of max reps thing like WSFSB style? If it’s the same concept, let me know. So higher reps than 8 and different exercises? Thanks for explaining.[/quote]

read, learn, lift.

Yes WSFSB is based of westside. Who didn’t necesarilly invent splitting training into DE, ME, and RE training, but popularized it.