T Nation

Cressey Prime Time: 8/29 and 9/1

EC

Could you give an example or an overview of longterm training for DL? What would it look like? I love the DL but have only DL’d 485lbs. Want to bring it up. I’ve always been told to only DL 2 time a month max and to stick with low reps. What is your take on that advice?

[quote]Eric Cressey wrote:
Strengthen the muscles working at the hips; they’ll help to take some of the load off the quads.[/quote]

By “muscles working at the hips,” do you mean posterior chain muscles (glutes, hams, spinal erectors, etc)?

If you’d care to elaborate, I’d love to know why. Are you opposed to icing the area regularly, or is it just anti-inflammatory medications that you don’t like? (For the record, I don’t think the anti-inflammatory medication has done me any good with this injury, but I did have good resuslts with a cortisone injection for elbow tendonitis a couple of years ago.)

Thanks again.

Eric,
I had contacted you via email recently on my shoulder issue. You surmised it was a supra strain and impingement involving the corac.

What should I avoid as I work to rehab this situation? Some suggest pullovers, some say avoid. Same for lat pulldowns and barbell overhead presses. Some of the chiro’s I’ve talked to even suggest avoiding overhead work entirely and solely using post, ant, and lateral raises for delt development.

Could you direct me to or offer some effective motions?

thanks,
DH

Eric,

My understanding is that lifting loads at various %ages of your 1RM will lead to the recruitment of different muscle fibres. Initially, the slow twitch and then onto the fast twitch (very simplified I’m sure).

Do you also think that the speed at which you lift influences muscle fibre recruitment?

EDIT:

Further to my initial query, let’s say my 1RM for a barbell bicep curl was 50KG in which I lift explosively and lower with control. If I were to try and lift the same weight in which the tempo was, say, 515 (lift for 5, pause for 1, lower for 5) it just isn’t going to happen as the time under tension would be too long for me to sustain.

Given the above scenario, is the muscle fibre recruitment that much different between the two examples?

My thinking was that if I dropped the weight enough to do a 1RM at a 515 tempo (as opposed to, say, 20X) then does the speed of the concentric portion of the lift influence which muscle fibres are recruited (the type I or type II)?

I hope this makes sense :slight_smile:

I had a friend who had this, he did low weight one leg eccentric training with a leg press machine (I bet you could do it with squats or body weight squat also)

This is similar to treating achilies tendonitis with eccentric calf raises.

You lift the weight with both legs, then you come down with only one - the injured, or if both are injured you do sets for each leg. This works really well for achillies tendonitis, takes only a few workouts to notice a difference and full recovery is fast! I know that it worked for my friend too, with his quadricept tendonitis.

[quote]twoolf wrote:
I’m currently trying to recover from quadriceps tendonitis in both knees. It’s developed over the last six months. I used to do very little squatting, and about a year ago started doing a lot of low-rep deep squatting and Olympic lifts. Six months later I started feeling pain above my knees on deep squats. Stupidly, I trained though it, and it got worse. Now I’ve laid off squatting completely (though I’m still doing deadlift variations and some power cleans and power snatches, which don’t cause pain because they don’t involve as much knee flexion).

My orthopedist put me on prescription anti-inflammatories, and I’m getting ART. If I can get the pain to clear up, what do you recommend to prevent the tendonitis from recurring? I’m particularly interested in the types of exercises and set/rep schemes that will help strengthen the tendons without re-injuring them.

Thanks![/quote]

EC, I need some help finding research studies. I have a great interest in them but maybe I just don’t know where to search? i use pubmed and google scholar and yes I know I can only get the abstracts but I can never find the studies I want. I get around 500 hits each time no matter what i search for. Someone suggested that no matter what i search I add “skeletal muscle” as it will filter os if I wanted to know about bcaa’s after training I would type in “bcaa postworkout skeletal muscle”

thoughts?

Thanks for the tip. After reading your post, I even found an old T-Nation article on this (http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do?article=body_114eex).I’ll definitely give it a try.

[quote]Jagrazor wrote:
I had a friend who had this, he did low weight one leg eccentric training with a leg press machine (I bet you could do it with squats or body weight squat also)

This is similar to treating achilies tendonitis with eccentric calf raises.

You lift the weight with both legs, then you come down with only one - the injured, or if both are injured you do sets for each leg. This works really well for achillies tendonitis, takes only a few workouts to notice a difference and full recovery is fast! I know that it worked for my friend too, with his quadricept tendonitis.

twoolf wrote:
I’m currently trying to recover from quadriceps tendonitis in both knees. It’s developed over the last six months. I used to do very little squatting, and about a year ago started doing a lot of low-rep deep squatting and Olympic lifts. Six months later I started feeling pain above my knees on deep squats. Stupidly, I trained though it, and it got worse. Now I’ve laid off squatting completely (though I’m still doing deadlift variations and some power cleans and power snatches, which don’t cause pain because they don’t involve as much knee flexion).

My orthopedist put me on prescription anti-inflammatories, and I’m getting ART. If I can get the pain to clear up, what do you recommend to prevent the tendonitis from recurring? I’m particularly interested in the types of exercises and set/rep schemes that will help strengthen the tendons without re-injuring them.

Thanks!

[/quote]

Hey Eric What would be your suggested taper for a deadlift meet? I have a meet two weeks from this Saturday and was wondering how you plan out your last weeks before showtime. Any suggestions and/or taper designs would be appreciated.

Also what do you think about the olympic weightlifting shoes? I am looking at getting a pair and just curious what other coaches views of them are. I would think they are not good to DL in due to the heal being slightly raised. I pull in flat sole puma’s and chucks but was thinking of ordering the oly shoes for my oly lifts. Any feedback would be helpful.

Just want you guys to know that I haven’t forgotten about you. Things have been crazy busy, but I’ll be on for a bit tomorrow to catch up with everyone.

Thanks for your patience! :slight_smile:

All of the above.

[quote]bigTR wrote:
Eric Cressey wrote:
If your hip flexors are tight, sit-ups are the worst thing you can be doing right now.

See my recommendation to the guy with weak glutes in the previous post; that stuff applies to you, too. Stretch out the entire hip region with the stretches outlined in Mike’s “Hardcore Stretching: Part II” and work on getting your glutes to fire. You’ll see marked differences in less than two weeks.

EC,
I also have very tight hips. I will read the articles you have suggested and start to really work on stretching out my hips. When you say that you will see “marked differences in less than two weeks” is that referring to hip flexibility, glute strength (resulting in a bigger squat/dead), or both? thanks,
TR[/quote]

There’s more than one way to skin a cat. I’ve seen people make progress pulling 3x/week and some who have made progress without pulling at all.

In terms of programming, it would depend a lot on where your sticking point is. See my “Deadlift Diagnosis” article for more details. Also, as Mike and I noted in our recent series, assistance exercises can be largely influenced by body types. If you have a longer torso, a healthy dose of good mornings could be just what you need. If you have longer limbs and a short torso, we’d focus more on your glutes and hammies with pulls against accomodating resistance, single-leg exercises, arched-back pull-throughs, and kneeling squats. If your core was weak, we’d hammer on that (actually we’d hammer on that anyway!).

All in all, you’ll notice that I don’t write many programs for the masses. The simple explanation for this is that I don’t have it in me to hand out cookie-cutter programming. It’ll always be completely inappropriate for some people.

If you want to bounce some programming ideas off me, feel free to shoot me an email.

[quote]mdragon wrote:
EC

Could you give an example or an overview of longterm training for DL? What would it look like? I love the DL but have only DL’d 485lbs. Want to bring it up. I’ve always been told to only DL 2 time a month max and to stick with low reps. What is your take on that advice?

[/quote]

[quote]twoolf wrote:
By “muscles working at the hips,” do you mean posterior chain muscles (glutes, hams, spinal erectors, etc)?[/quote]

Exactly (among others, especially the smaller stabilizing muscles).

[quote]FYI, I’m not a fan of the anti-inflammatory approach. I’ll leave it at that.

If you’d care to elaborate, I’d love to know why. Are you opposed to icing the area regularly, or is it just anti-inflammatory medications that you don’t like? (For the record, I don’t think the anti-inflammatory medication has done me any good with this injury, but I did have good resuslts with a cortisone injection for elbow tendonitis a couple of years ago.)

Thanks again.
[/quote]

I’m all for icing; I just don’t like NSAIDs very much beyond acute conditions. Here’s a Q&A I did elsewhere that will elaborate on why:

I would can all benching, overhead pressing, front/lateral raises, and pull-ups/pulldowns for the next two weeks and focus on horizontal pulling (seated rows especially), rear delt work, external rotations (below 90 degrees of abduction). Incorporate face pulls for scapular depression and retraction as tolerated. If it hurts, don’t do it.

Train your lower body and your core hard in the meantime, and you’ll be fine. Don’t expect much atrophy or strength loss for three weeks, especially if you’re doing other compound movements to keep the training stimulus high.

Ice like crazy and get some ART if you have access. We’ll talk future programming down the road; jumping right back into what you were doing is the single-worst thing you can do.

Shoot me an email if you need more help.

Good luck!

EC

[quote]Disc Hoss wrote:
Eric,
I had contacted you via email recently on my shoulder issue. You surmised it was a supra strain and impingement involving the corac.

What should I avoid as I work to rehab this situation? Some suggest pullovers, some say avoid. Same for lat pulldowns and barbell overhead presses. Some of the chiro’s I’ve talked to even suggest avoiding overhead work entirely and solely using post, ant, and lateral raises for delt development.

Could you direct me to or offer some effective motions?

thanks,
DH
[/quote]

[quote]flying scotsman wrote:
Eric,

My understanding is that lifting loads at various %ages of your 1RM will lead to the recruitment of different muscle fibres. Initially, the slow twitch and then onto the fast twitch (very simplified I’m sure).[/quote]

Correct (the repetition method).

Definitely! The faster you move the bar, the more fast twitch fibers you’ll recruit (the dynamic effort method).

[quote]EDIT:

Further to my initial query, let’s say my 1RM for a barbell bicep curl was 50KG in which I lift explosively and lower with control. If I were to try and lift the same weight in which the tempo was, say, 515 (lift for 5, pause for 1, lower for 5) it just isn’t going to happen as the time under tension would be too long for me to sustain.

You’re not going to be able to lift your 1RM on a 515 tempo. This probably isn’t a good example.

It doesn’t really matter, as that scenario is impossible. Howeer, if the 515 set was with less than maximal weights, recruitment wouldn’t be near-maximal until the later reps on the 515 tempo. Even still, the training effect will be entirely different; lift slow and you’ll be slow. It’s just a matter of neuromuscular adaptations.

Yes, because you don’t achieve near maximal recruitment right away (because the weight isn’t perceived as being as heavy).

Somewhat. Don’t get too hung up on tempos.

Remember, we’re dealing with TENDONOSIS - not TENDONITIS. Big difference; true tendonitis is pretty rare and is easily treated with NSAIDs. This is a common misnomer.

[quote]Jagrazor wrote:
I had a friend who had this, he did low weight one leg eccentric training with a leg press machine (I bet you could do it with squats or body weight squat also)

This is similar to treating achilies tendonitis with eccentric calf raises.

You lift the weight with both legs, then you come down with only one - the injured, or if both are injured you do sets for each leg. This works really well for achillies tendonitis, takes only a few workouts to notice a difference and full recovery is fast! I know that it worked for my friend too, with his quadricept tendonitis.

twoolf wrote:
I’m currently trying to recover from quadriceps tendonitis in both knees. It’s developed over the last six months. I used to do very little squatting, and about a year ago started doing a lot of low-rep deep squatting and Olympic lifts. Six months later I started feeling pain above my knees on deep squats. Stupidly, I trained though it, and it got worse. Now I’ve laid off squatting completely (though I’m still doing deadlift variations and some power cleans and power snatches, which don’t cause pain because they don’t involve as much knee flexion).

My orthopedist put me on prescription anti-inflammatories, and I’m getting ART. If I can get the pain to clear up, what do you recommend to prevent the tendonitis from recurring? I’m particularly interested in the types of exercises and set/rep schemes that will help strengthen the tendons without re-injuring them.

Thanks!

[/quote]

Those two have everything you can possible need. You just need to learn how to narrow your search terms and be willing to put the time in. It’s all part of the research process; learn to love it.

[quote]bigpump23 wrote:
EC, I need some help finding research studies. I have a great interest in them but maybe I just don’t know where to search? i use pubmed and google scholar and yes I know I can only get the abstracts but I can never find the studies I want. I get around 500 hits each time no matter what i search for. Someone suggested that no matter what i search I add “skeletal muscle” as it will filter os if I wanted to know about bcaa’s after training I would type in “bcaa postworkout skeletal muscle”

thoughts?[/quote]

My last semi-heavy pull before Worlds was 18 days out (it was roughly an 82% lift). Give yourself the rest; you’ll thank me later. Two weeks out is just some technique work, and the last week is complete rest…maybe some light activity just to help me make weight.

[quote]mike hanley wrote:
Hey Eric What would be your suggested taper for a deadlift meet? I have a meet two weeks from this Saturday and was wondering how you plan out your last weeks before showtime. Any suggestions and/or taper designs would be appreciated.[/quote]

Good stuff. I don’t own a pair, but everyone I know who owns a pair absolutely loves them. A bit expensive, but seemingly worth the price if you’re O-lifting often.

Hey, do you americans get a long weekend too? :slight_smile:

Few questions:

  1. My knees have a habit of coming/collapasing in a bit during the initial pull in my DL’s. Am I right in assuming that this means weak glutes?

  2. I have been doing a lot of different single-leg exersises lately to bring up my glutes. I was wondering if you had any particular faves when it comes to hammering the glutes. I find bulgarian squats to be the most painful but lunges are pretty damn hard too.

I also saw someone doing ‘walking’ lunges up flights of stairs(each time skipping 1 or 2 steps). Kind of like a cross between a lunge and a step-up I guess. Have you ever seen these before?

  1. I dont understand how people say DE doesnt stimulate hypertrophy. If I am really focusing on lifting as fast as possible I feel a good amount muscle fatigue after a DE session. Even though the load isnt that great the rate you are lifting at will make up for this, will it not? Care to share your opinion on this?

Obviously it wont be as effective as say the repetition method at inducing hypertrophy but fatigue + adpatation = growth as far as I understand it.

EC,
I was corresponding with MR and he suggested that I drop my DE bench work because at my level (215 max) it would not do much good. He said getting stronger would make me faster. I posted again on the same thread but he must have missed it. My question is what should I do on that day as my first exercise instead of DE work. I thought maybe a close grip bench 4x6-8 or something of this nature, but I am not sure. For reference I am following Jim Wendler’s suggestions for benching raw. Thanks a lot,
TR

EC,
I was also just reviewing your “Get Your Butt in Gear” series. Do you suggest using the dynamic warm up, motor pattern work and static stretching for all lower body workouts or just until your hips have adaquete flexibility and your glutes are in order. Also do you recommend performing the static stretches immediately following lifting sessions, because Defranco said (I am interested because I have been following this) he doesnt have his athletes stretch immediately following workouts because their muscles are too fired up or something to that effect. Thanks again,
TR