Creatine Intake

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:
Just take 5g in your postworkout shake. Done.[/quote]

This.

So I guess now if any one can find a ledget site or study about this that would be ver helpful

[quote]navybuilder wrote:
So I guess now if any one can find a ledget site or study about this that would be ver helpful[/quote]

why? this thread has completely valid information so take it or leave it… if you really want a study try google, perhaps

ERGO-LOG.COM search for creatine…lots of very good research. that being said most of the info here is pretty accurate. i do feel if you are over 250lbs 10 grams works better than five but that just my opinion. I don;t think anyone that is 170lbs or so can really say without a doubt that more may not be better if you are 250 plus.

For me its cheap as hell so i take 10 daily for many reasons…not just bodybuilding. read the research on ergo-log.com its actually a pretty amazing substance with many beneficial aspects outside just phsyique enhancement.

[quote]morepain wrote:
ERGO-LOG.COM search for creatine…lots of very good research. that being said most of the info here is pretty accurate. i do feel if you are over 250lbs 10 grams works better than five but that just my opinion. I don;t think anyone that is 170lbs or so can really say without a doubt that more may not be better if you are 250 plus.

For me its cheap as hell so i take 10 daily for many reasons…not just bodybuilding. read the research on ergo-log.com its actually a pretty amazing substance with many beneficial aspects outside just phsyique enhancement. [/quote]

x2

To be honest, as long as you’re not getting the shits and the extra cost isn’t an issue then I don’t see any problem with continuing 30g either.

[quote]navybuilder wrote:
So I guess now if any one can find a ledget site or study about this that would be ver helpful[/quote]

What view are you wanting to validate with a study?

ERGO_LOG.com was an interesting read till I found this:

“Even the body composition of the creatine takers altered during the 6 days. Their fat percentage decreased by 4 percent.”

I call BS on this one. 4% BF in 6 days? Seriously? Or is it just that quick and simple for already very lean people?

Were they measuring via bio-impedance? If so, then it would make sense that it “appeared” to go down if they became more hydrated.

[quote]Fat Bastard. wrote:
ERGO_LOG.com was an interesting read till I found this:

“Even the body composition of the creatine takers altered during the 6 days. Their fat percentage decreased by 4 percent.”

I call BS on this one. 4% BF in 6 days? Seriously? Or is it just that quick and simple for already very lean people?[/quote]

ergo-log is a gathering site of studies form everywhere you will find some that are spot on and some that you say…hmmm maybe not. thats the nature of research really. Actually the most interesting studies on creatine are being done on the ability of creatine to dramatically lower homocysteine and its repercussions to the mental health field.

But as you said you will find some studies that are hard to beleive on lots of substances the key is (as with all research) be aware of the statistical significance as well as of course who sponsored the research.

Guys,

A few points here (creatine is one of my specialties):

  1. If you dont load, it will take about 4 weeks to top off your creatine stores in muscle. This assumes normal creatine transporter activity, muscle fiber distribution, and uptake into the target tissue.

  2. ALL methods of measuring body composition have inherent assumptions that must be met for the results to be valid. Creatine use engenders fluid retention, which will throw off the results, regardless of the method used…with one exception - carcass analysis. :slight_smile:

  3. Exercise and insulin both increase creatine storage in muscle. Hence the very good recommendation of taking creatine pre/post workout and co-ingesting it with some type of high GI carb. Alpha lipoic acid also enhances uptake. This is how M-tech made tons of dough selling CellTech.

So if you want a quick performance boost and dont mind a bit of water retention, LOAD. Scores of studies have shown that 5-7 days of 20-30 grams per day will improve repeated, explosive performance. Yes, by the 5th day or so, most of the ingested dose is being converted to creatinine and excreted in the urine. So what. High quality creatine is safe and cheap.

On the other hand, if you’re a “slow and steady wins the race” kinda guy, then take 5 grams pre (and maybe post) workout. This will work, but it will take much longer to see the performance benefits.

Finally, there is definitely merit to dosing relative to body weight (or even better lean mass). In my first creatine study, we used a dose of 0.3 grams per kg of lean mass. It worked great.

BTW, there’s also data that shows creatine increases memory and intelligence in vegetarians, protects against concussive injuries, and increases bone mass. In the kooky sports supplement world filled with mostly marketing B.S., creatine is a notable exception!

TZ

[quote]Fat Bastard. wrote:
ERGO_LOG.com was an interesting read till I found this:

“Even the body composition of the creatine takers altered during the 6 days. Their fat percentage decreased by 4 percent.”

I call BS on this one. 4% BF in 6 days? Seriously? Or is it just that quick and simple for already very lean people?[/quote]

I haven’t read that study, but I don’t believe they mean that the study group went from %20 to %16, but went from %20 to %19.2. They lost %4 of their body fat.

[quote]Tim Ziegenfuss PhD wrote:
Guys,

A few points here (creatine is one of my specialties):

  1. If you dont load, it will take about 4 weeks to top off your creatine stores in muscle. This assumes normal creatine transporter activity, muscle fiber distribution, and uptake into the target tissue.

  2. ALL methods of measuring body composition have inherent assumptions that must be met for the results to be valid. Creatine use engenders fluid retention, which will throw off the results, regardless of the method used…with one exception - carcass analysis. :slight_smile:

  3. Exercise and insulin both increase creatine storage in muscle. Hence the very good recommendation of taking creatine pre/post workout and co-ingesting it with some type of high GI carb. Alpha lipoic acid also enhances uptake. This is how M-tech made tons of dough selling CellTech.

So if you want a quick performance boost and dont mind a bit of water retention, LOAD. Scores of studies have shown that 5-7 days of 20-30 grams per day will improve repeated, explosive performance. Yes, by the 5th day or so, most of the ingested dose is being converted to creatinine and excreted in the urine. So what. High quality creatine is safe and cheap.

On the other hand, if you’re a “slow and steady wins the race” kinda guy, then take 5 grams pre (and maybe post) workout. This will work, but it will take much longer to see the performance benefits.

Finally, there is definitely merit to dosing relative to body weight (or even better lean mass). In my first creatine study, we used a dose of 0.3 grams per kg of lean mass. It worked great.

BTW, there’s also data that shows creatine increases memory and intelligence in vegetarians, protects against concussive injuries, and increases bone mass. In the kooky sports supplement world filled with mostly marketing B.S., creatine is a notable exception!

TZ[/quote]

QFT and FTW.

[quote]kakno wrote:

[quote]navybuilder wrote:
So even if im going for body building and putting on wieght, its still just 5g? that just dosent seem like much to me.[/quote]

Don’t listen to these brainwashed dudes. 30 grams is good, right? Then just imagine how good 100 grams a day would be. I sprinkle it on my food, spread it on sandwiches and eat it with a spoon straight out of the bag.

More is always better, brah![/quote]

Koresh advises 20 grams per day.

thread hijack!!!

why is Poliquin called koresh?
i know he’s called that because of his gimmicky nature, but why koresh?
/hijack

[quote]PimpBot5000 wrote:
No need to give the guy a hard time.

I have not researched creatine supplementation thoroughly, so please do correct me if I’m wrong here, but can somebody post an actual research article confirming the mantra that “5 grams pre and post workout” is in fact scientifically valid?

Throwing around numbers like this without any evidence needs to be avoided. Remember the old “25 grams of protein is all you can absorb per sitting” guidelines?

It seems to me that somebody with more appreciable muscle mass would need to supplement with more creatine to maintain levels in the muscle. Is there some kind of regulatory feedback system inherent in the human body (be it the body of Bill Kazmaier or a 4’2" Bangladeshi midget) that says “ok, we’re at exactly 5 grams of creatine here, time to piss all the excess away”?

Creatine is dirt cheap these days, there is evidence that it has cognitive benefits, and there don’t seem to be any negative side effects at reasonable dosages. Why not take more?

(As a small aside, here’s an interesting article I dug up about taking 5 grams 4x per day or taking 20grams at once in regards to urinary excretion. Seems as though less is wasted at the larger dosage.

Urinary creatine and methylamine excretion following 4 x 5 g x day(-1) or 20 x 1 g x day(-1) of creatine monohydrate for 5 days - PubMed ) [/quote]

I know the research study about creatine you mentioned. There’s a difference between a scientific study and scientific evidence. Not everything has to be supported with a study.

I go by urine output. If Im running to the bathroom more frequently than normal especially around the time I take creatine, then I know I had too much. %g is actually too much for me in one sitting. I take no more than two gram at any one time. On off days I take 2g in the morning and 2 g in the evening with food. On workout days I take 2g before and after training, and an additional 2g with my last meal of the day.

I meant to say 5g not %g. Hit the shift button when I did that :stuck_out_tongue:

Yeah, I go by the “if I’m peeing every five minutes, I’ve taken too much creatine” mantra. One level small (5 g I guess?) scoop per day is usually the right amount for me.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
the creatin got u mad swoll brah?

you puttin it in yer socks?[/quote]

Where else bro?

[quote]deadliftgoal500 wrote:
thread hijack!!!

why is Poliquin called koresh?
i know he’s called that because of his gimmicky nature, but why koresh?
/hijack[/quote]

I dunno. A popular strength coach who has written on here used the name KORESH in conversation with me on Facebook and I’ve used it ever since.