Creatine at Bedtime

[quote]Original_Demon wrote:
David Barr wrote:
Prof, let me clarify: you don’t need creatine on non training days.

Then why the initial loading phase? If it takes time for your muscles to eventually absord the extra 2.5 grams or so of creatine they can optimally absorb, than why not take it everyday, workout or not?

Also, creatine monohydrate sucks balls…

OD

[/quote]

A loading phase (ie 4 or 5 times the maintenance amount per day) is not needed. the only point of ingesting creatine is to top off the muscles stores of it. otherwise we would just get it from food and not supplement it. so depending on how much creatine is used up, we can determine the amount we need to put back. An article here at T-nation a while back went into much greater detail.

P.S.

why does creatine monohydrate “suck balls”???

its the plain jane regular old creatine that gets the job gone for cheap.

what kind do you use? effervescent, orange mocha crea-blasters are pretty good i hear

UBO7,

I use CE2. It’s an esterfied creatine. I’ve used monohydrates in the past and found them a waste of time. For my muscles to absorb just 2.5 grams of the stuff I had to take in around 10 grams or more a day! I constantly had cotton-mouth and could never quinch my thirst. And here came the water weight. :frowning:

Esterfied creatine effects are much more… “EFFECTIVE”!!! I only take about three grams of CE2 a day and drink much less water.

I’ve dropped soooo much water weight it’s not even funny. I still drink about a gallon of water a day. That’s all I need!!! My muscles do not cramp up and I never experience dehydration. Except when I try to throw too much caffeine in the mix. :wink:

So yea… monohydrate sucks balls.

OD

On the other hand CE2 only tastes like sucking balls. :wink:

Prof, relax, you’re really turning this into something more than it needs to be. I’m not even sure where you’re going anymore.

The final paragraph of your last post does not justify the first. For that, you’ve earned the Straw Man.

[quote]Professor X wrote:
You don’t NEED to use creatine at all, however, there is little sense in avoiding it at all costs on non-training days. Would your body be likely to use less? No doubt. Does that mean that you will be bedridden and won’t be using your muscles at all for anything? Not likely. [/quote]

OD, most people, myself included, are impatient when it comes to body composition improvements. As you are supersaturating your muscles (ie during a "loading phase -whether it be rapid or not), it’s not a bad idea to take it every day.

It’s for longer term use that you don’t need it on non-training days (which is all discussed in the article).

Good question!

[quote]Original_Demon wrote:
Then why the initial loading phase? If it takes time for your muscles to eventually absord the extra 2.5 grams or so of creatine they can optimally absorb, than why not take it everyday, workout or not?
OD
[/quote]

[quote]Professor X wrote:
First, there is no time that you should take creatine. This isn’t like caffeine where you will eventually eliminate the effects over a few hours. The goal is to keep whatever amount can be stored in your muscle tissues at full capacity. It doesn’t matter if you take it at night or any other time of the day.

Taking it on off days would only be a waste if you were completely topped off leading to any excess being excreted.[/quote]

Studies HAVE shown that if you load on creatine (more than 5-10 grams a day) your body responds by eliminating it faster and actually dropping it eventually below loading levels, while if you maintain 5-10 grams a day, you do not get the rebound elimination.

You probably want to see the studies.

Anyway, I think I read it in MM 2K 8-9 years ago.

I don’t take creatine regularly, but will occasionally go through a 2 week stretch or so. I think it MAY stretch stuff out (fascial stretching) kind of like stretching a balloon before blowing it up.

Also, some studies suggest that short term creatine depletion is one of the triggers for hypertrophy. If you load up, it could be much harder to trigger this.

(Not intended to be a direct response to PX, I was just looking for a spot to butt in.)

[quote]David Barr wrote:
Prof, relax, you’re really turning this into something more than it needs to be. I’m not even sure where you’re going anymore.

The final paragraph of your last post does not justify the first. For that, you’ve earned the Straw Man.
[/quote]

Cute pic, but you obviously missed the point. You are presenting this information to some people who have never had any real background in understanding even basic concepts of nutrition. If you tell them that creatine needs to be taken after training, you completely overstep the understanding that this is not NEEDED. While they go on to spread this “info” in locker rooms of the local high schools, it needs to be presented that they can take creatine at any time. Your body doesn’t stop absorbing it simply because you took it at a different time of day.

You could see that by the questions asked. That isn’t a “strawman”, a word that seems to be thrown around to an irritating degree lately. If you don’t understand something, ask for clarification.

[quote]mertdawg wrote:
Studies HAVE shown that if you load on creatine (more than 5-10 grams a day) your body responds by eliminating it faster and actually dropping it eventually below loading levels, while if you maintain 5-10 grams a day, you do not get the rebound elimination.

You probably want to see the studies.
[/quote]

That would be nice, even though I rarely take creatine in the first place.

ok, so whats the consensus -

  1. which creatine?, which brand

  2. how much ( does this depend on your weight?)

  3. how often & when?, whats the bottom line ?

sure we could all take loads of it, everyday, training or not, but supplements cost, so if you dont want to just piss it away what is the right way to take the stuff

thanks, jon

I’m taking 5 gr with 20 gr of dextrose, but you are saying that replacing dextrose with salt would be more effective?

[quote]tuffloud wrote:
There is no need to take creatine on off days. The only time you really should take it is after workouts with your high glycemic carbs and protein shake, like Surge. Taking it on off days is a waste and the high glycemic carbs are crucial for absorption of the creatine.[/quote]

There are dozens of different protocols for taking creatine. After your workout isnt the only time.

I wouldn’t recommend it at night simply because your insulin sensitivity is not as good as earlier in the day. Additiionally, you probably don’t want to be taking a great deal of carbs in at bedtime.

Plain old creatine is pretty cheap. I’ll take it after workout on the off chance that there is an ability to “supercompensate” at that time. I’ll take it whenever I remember to take it on off days.

If I’m pissing some of it away, it’s cheap and I don’t care. Creatine does appear to have benefits other than bodybuilding pursuits.

[quote]vroom wrote:

If I’m pissing some of it away, it’s cheap and I don’t care. Creatine does appear to have benefits other than bodybuilding pursuits.[/quote]

Thats rather intresting Vroom(the benefits of cretine not your pissing it away ;-))what else is it good for then?

Well, the good folks at LEF get a little hype compliant at times, but it’s implicated in plenty of beneficial things:

Creatine: More than a Sports Nutrition Supplement
http://search.lef.org/src-cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=21&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind.cfg&host_id=42&page_id=13698560&query=creatine&hiword=creatine+

Creatine: Not just a Sports Nutrition Supplement
http://search.lef.org/src-cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=21&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind.cfg&host_id=42&page_id=10554112&query=creatine&hiword=creatine+

When i picked up the creatine I was using, the owner of the place claimed that the “loading phase” was bullshit, and the companies only say to do it to sell more. He said the maintence phase was enough…I have heard this a couple times. Hell I figured if I dont load on it, it will last me longer, thus saving some dough. Its worked fine for me.

The only reason I wouldnt take it later on is that it tends to bother my stomach when I drink it…might be a pain in the ass to sleep with your stomach feeling a little turbulent.

I’ll echo Vroom’s approach.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Well, the good folks at LEF get a little hype compliant at times, but it’s implicated in plenty of beneficial things:

Creatine: More than a Sports Nutrition Supplement
http://search.lef.org/src-cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=21&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind.cfg&host_id=42&page_id=13698560&query=creatine&hiword=creatine+

Creatine: Not just a Sports Nutrition Supplement
http://search.lef.org/src-cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=21&EXTRA_ARG=&CFGNAME=MssFind.cfg&host_id=42&page_id=10554112&query=creatine&hiword=creatine+
[/quote]

Thanks for those links Vroom, I never realised how versatile creatine is! quite amazing
really.

[quote]vroom wrote:
Plain old creatine is pretty cheap. I’ll take it after workout on the off chance that there is an ability to “supercompensate” at that time. I’ll take it whenever I remember to take it on off days.

If I’m pissing some of it away, it’s cheap and I don’t care. Creatine does appear to have benefits other than bodybuilding pursuits.[/quote]

ok vroom, thanks for the links, you’ve made good points