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Creatine and Caffeine

Okay my am protein drink contains caffeine and I’m going back onto creatine (took time off cause of sickness). Question is it okay to combine creatine and caffeine? I’ve read that it hinders preformance but John Berardi mentioned it’s okay in some article.

I don’t know if it’s okay or not, but if you do mix them, make sure you drink plenty of water.

Why don’t you use a good protein like Grow! that doesn’t contain caffeine?

I seem to remeber a very old article in a muscle mag that said caffene and creatine do not mix, however it was long ago and more than likely disproven since

  1. Purchase micronized creatine monohydrate and dissolve five grams into water warm enough to dissolve all five grams.
  2. Heat it to the general temperature that you?d use with hot coffee or tea.
    In fact, that?s how I drink mine in the morning. I heat a glass of water, add five grams of micronized creatine monohydrate, stir until it?s dissolved, and then add two capsules of green tea extract and two packets of sucralose. Afterwards, I do what’s referred to in the scientific community as “drinking it.” (14)
    I want to add, though, that both John Berardi and Tim Patterson maintain that “even creatine non-responders” derive great benefit from mixing micronized creatine powder into Surge. I haven?t tried it, but it makes sense.

Some of the original research on creatine done in Britian had the creatine dissolved in tea, so i wouldnt be worried about it.

Once again we have two opposing studies. Some studies show that you shouldn’t combine the two; others showing that caffeine having no negative effect on creatine.

My suggestion would be to take your creatine without your protein drink. Wait an hour or so, then the creatine.

Otherwise, you could do a Google search, and see what you find.

[quote]derek wrote:
In fact, that?s how I drink mine in the morning. I heat a glass of water, add five grams of micronized creatine monohydrate, stir until it?s dissolved, and then add two capsules of green tea extract and two packets of sucralose. Afterwards, I do what’s referred to in the scientific community as “drinking it.”
[/quote]

derek,

Read Dave Barr’s “Dangerous Creatine” and save yourself some money.
http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=459369

-DV

What’s wrong with the way Derek consumes his creatine. I’ve read this to and it was posted by Chris Shugart I think in the Cool Tips on taking creatine.

BTW Does anyone have a definite answer and a source to back it up.

I read John Berardi’s article but didn’t find the answer.

To me, and I am not an expert, the reason you aren’t getting an answer is because it’s such a bogus question. What could caffeine and creatine possibly have to do with each other? They are completely totally different elements used by the body in completely different ways.

I seriously doubt there will be any negative interaction.

But, to get the best creatine effectiveness, on workout days you want to take it with your highly-glycemic post-workout drink. You can pack more of it into your muscles at that point than any other time. On non-workout days, just take it whenever, however is convenient.

Caffeine increases muscle relaxation time. See :

http://jap.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/92/2/513

Another study where caffeine interfered with creatine :

If you look at the dosages of creatine used it is quite high ( 5mg/kg of bodyweight ).

So basically avoid taking caffeine in large amounts with creatine but having say a cup of tea or coffee with creatine will be fine as pointed out above researchers used caffeine in coffee or tea in previous studies and got good results.

[quote]michaelv wrote:
To me, and I am not an expert, the reason you aren’t getting an answer is because it’s such a bogus question. What could caffeine and creatine possibly have to do with each other? They are completely totally different elements used by the body in completely different ways.

I seriously doubt there will be any negative interaction.

But, to get the best creatine effectiveness, on workout days you want to take it with your high-glycemic post-workout drink. You can pack more of it into your muscles at that point than any other time. On non-workout days, just take it whenever, however is convenient.[/quote]

I’m with MikeV here - they work in two totally different path ways. One being a stimulant that increases the production rate of AMP (I believe) which contributes toward your metabolic rate (increasing core temp). The other is simply a combination of amino acids that your body has 100g+ storage of anyway. I don’t see any problem if they were taken concurrently.

However, I can foresee a problem when caffeine is ingested in large quantities (500mg+ per day) as it can then act as a diuretic. And, since additional creatine/creatine phosphate storage would require more water, excessive caffeine intake might pose a problem with the absorption and subsequent storage of the supplemental creatine.

I personally suggest consuming 50-100mg of caffeine (1 cup of coffee is about 65mg) in the AM and again 50-100 in early afternoon or 30 minutes before your workout. As for creatine, I have read several studies that show concurrent protein and carbohydrate consumption helped to load supplemental creatine into skeletal muscle. I believe this would be enhanced PWO with a high GI carb and whey iso/hydro, as MikeV pointed out. Done in this fashion, creatine and caffeine would not be taken together anyway.

TS

I should mention that I agree with Boxer as well, as I put the same post in different verbage.

TS

[quote]Boxer wrote:
…as pointed out above researchers used caffeine in coffee or tea in previous studies and got good results.

[/quote]
Sorry guys. That should read ‘…researchers used CREATINE in coffee or tea in previous studies…’.

[quote]Boxer wrote:
…If you look at the dosages of creatine used it is quite high ( 5mg/kg of bodyweight )…[/quote]

I’m assuming this is typo, because that is a relatively miniscule dose of creatine.

~Terumo

[quote]Terumo wrote:

I’m assuming this is typo, because that is a relatively miniscule dose of creatine.

~Terumo[/quote]
No it’s not another typo lol

It is a small amount compared to the amount found in some supplements but it’s quite large compared to the amount found in a cup of tea or coffee ( which would be between 80mg and 100mg of caffeine per cup from memory ).

I had no problems doing it this summer.

I believe the “conflict” most people think of when thinking of creatine and caffine is that creatine loads water into your body whereas caffine is a diuretic and causes you to piss water out…
Having said that, I remember reading in a Berardi article saying that they do not conflict in this way…I myself use creatine and I have about 1 cup of coffee a day.

[quote]Terumo wrote:

I’m assuming this is typo, because that is a relatively miniscule dose of creatine.

~Terumo[/quote]
Ah heck. Yes you are right. I even read your post wrong at first.

I was talking about the dosage of caffeine used.

Sorry if i’ve confused the poster of the thread ( and others lol ).

I am actually unwell here and I had better wait a few days before am feeling ok before posting :slight_smile:

Heres my situation…I work out at 430 in the mornin so right when I wake up I have a cup of coffee, then while im getting out of my car to get in the gym, i consume my 5g of creatine. Now is that bad?

i think were getting carried away here with whats practica and whats optimal.

vandemburg (1997) stated that caffeinated beverages are an inapropraite vehicle for creatine consumption.
The caffeine denatures the protien - leadin to less than optimal conditions. This was contadicted by earleir studies by greenhaff who used coffee and tea and had positive results. Newer findings suggest it doesnt dissolve optimally in caffeine too but im struggling to find this reference…

The carbs thing come about via Green et al, 1996 who stated that creatine uptake can increase 60% when taken with sugars (study used 370g of glucose a day)…
I personally would take monohydrate with a fast acting carb pre/post workout.

All the key studies however used monohydrate. I have nothin on the 3rd generation CEE type stuff about - maybe need to dig deeper.

anyone elaborate???