T Nation

Couple of HCG ?'s

Is it okay to leave the mixed hcg in the syringe? At 5000 iu per ampule, I would get 10 shots @ 500 iu, would the hcg deteriorate over 10 days?
The box states “subcut or im”, which is best? Seeing that I’ll be shooting ed I’m inclined to go with subcut.
Any advise appreciated.

It will be fine for 10 days or even a little longer as long as you keep refrigerated.

As far as injection - either way actually will work - same with insulin (some actual studies have shown faster release from IM).

HCG delivered in vials with diluent are labelled to be good for 10 weeks refrigerated. This would be a better thing to store in the frig VS ten full syringes.

The product can be stored refrigerated in syringes. I have tried SC as well as IM and the effect feels the same. So from my point of view for injecting forever (HRT) I have will spare the muscles from that damage. I do feel the needle stick in my belly, more nerves than the leg.

Studies have shown that 250 IU EOD in fully LH depressed subjects restores intratesticular testosterone levels to base line (97%). After that higher doses create greatly reduced returns on investment. So that is probably the only known scientific based dose info that we have for maintaining baseline testicular activity.

As most have probably read already, large doses over a period of time can downreg the LH receptors that that needs to be avoided. Higher doses for short durations to kick start things has a good track record. Folks who go extreme are not doing things right.

[quote]KSman wrote:
HCG delivered in vials with diluent are labelled to be good for 10 weeks refrigerated. This would be a better thing to store in the frig VS ten full syringes.

The product can be stored refrigerated in syringes. I have tried SC as well as IM and the effect feels the same. So from my point of view for injecting forever (HRT) I have will spare the muscles from that damage. I do feel the needle stick in my belly, more nerves than the leg.

/Studies have shown that 250 IU EOD in fully LH depressed subjects restores intratesticular testosterone levels to base line (97%). After that higher doses create greatly reduced returns on investment. So that is probably the only known scientific based dose info that we have for maintaining baseline testicular activity. /

As most have probably read already, large doses over a period of time can downreg the LH receptors that that needs to be avoided. Higher doses for short durations to kick start things has a good track record. Folks who go extreme are not doing things right.[/quote]

Over what period of time are we talking here?

I don’t fully understand the question about “what period”.

The 10 weeks refrigerated is 10 weeks after adding the water to the dry HCG.

Period of HCG therapy? From an HRT point of view, this is for the rest of ones life that one cares to preserve the size and/or function of the testicles. From the point of view of a steriod cycle, one probably needs to use it for the whole cycle.

The study used 200 mg/week of test ethanate to knock down LH and FSH. Testing showed that these values were close to zero after one week. The results reported at 21 days where the levels seemed stable. As the testes switched from LH to HCG, and the ITT levels were unchanged at 250IU, this was thought to be the steady state result.

[quote]KSman wrote:
From the point of view of a steriod cycle, one probably needs to use it for the whole cycle.[/quote]
I would be wary of using hcg for that long for it coul suppress your Test production permanently. Most people seem to recommend two to three weeks of hcg after the cycle and maybe a week halfway through it IF one is using mega dosages for a long time.

[quote]robbiminator wrote:
I would be wary of using HCG for that long for it could suppress your Test production permanently. Most people seem to recommend two to three weeks of HCG after the cycle and maybe a week halfway through it IF one is using mega dosages for a long time.
[/quote]

If one is doing steroids or TRT, LH is suppressed and the testes shut down. If things are left in that state, the testes get smaller and in some cases undergo permanent structural changes. So HCG at levels that provide the same stimulation that the would normally get via LH is a healthy thing to do.

For those taking HCG for HRT/TRT, the whole point is that testosterone levels are already permanently too low and the HCG prevents the TRT from shutting down the testes.

The study found that these small doses are sufficient to maintain a baseline indicator (ITT) of testicular activity. This is good information as many therapies have used huge amounts which could downregulate the LH receptors. That is probably the issue that you are concerned about. So we now know how to avoid that. These doses avoid downregulation of LH receptors and can be maintained indefinately.

250 ius eod through a cycle will make a world of difference when coming off and heading into PCT, no depression, no rasin balls and a quicker return to normal.

I think you could do 3000-5000 ius a week if you kept it at 3 or 4 weeks. If you read the literature regarding hypogonadal males the doses are significantly higher for longer periods.

[quote]Over40 wrote:
250 ius eod through a cycle will make a world of difference when coming off and heading into PCT, no depression, no raisin balls and a quicker return to normal.

I think you could do 3000-5000 ius a week if you kept it at 3 or 4 weeks. If you read the literature regarding hypogonadal males the doses are significantly higher for longer periods.[/quote]

In the details of the research paper it was stated that the findings that 250 EOD preserved base line functioning should lead to reduced dosing. The basis for some of these high doses is questioned. They did note that their study was the continuation of baseline levels in normal healthy males and that higher amounts might be needed for other situations. The paper is a good read, link follows:

http://dspace.hsl.washington.edu/dspace/bitstream/2012/52/1/JCEM_2005_Low_Dose_Human.pdf