T Nation

Count Carbs from Veggies?


#1

Hi guys,

Just a quick one. Im on the anabolic, low carb diet. I eat lots and lots of green vegies (broccoli, cabbage, celery, letuce..) and if i count non-fibrous carbs they excede 30g limit. Therefore i stopped cou ti g them from fibrous vegies and i have like 15 cups a day.

I only count carbs from other sources. Is this a correct approach?

Thanks a lot!


#2

I am interested in the answer but I would guess it will be a split decision.

Some people count carbs from leafy greens and some don’t. Looks like another personal opinion answer to me.


#3

[quote]JLone wrote:
I am interested in the answer but I would guess it will be a split decision.

Some people count carbs from leafy greens and some don’t. Looks like another personal opinion answer to me. [/quote]

Yeah but im interested in whats dr mauro’s theory about this is. So i guess ppl who are following this diet with experiene for yrs would knowthe answer. My personal belief is that we shouldnt count them coz green leefy vegies can neer b overdosed.


#4

Well you get away without counting carbs from veggies:

  1. because it’s usually low enough to be negligible
  2. some of it is in the form of insoluble fiber, which nets 0 Calories/gram

That said, it’s very possible for fibrous vegetables to make a significant contribution to macro & Calorie totals if eaten enough. Do you have your answer from this information?


#5

[quote]DAVE101 wrote:
Well you get away without counting carbs from veggies:

  1. because it’s usually low enough to be negligible
  2. some of it is in the form of insoluble fiber, which nets 0 Calories/gram

That said, it’s very possible for fibrous vegetables to make a significant contribution to macro & Calorie totals if eaten enough. Do you have your answer from this information?[/quote]

Even if i eat 15-20 cups a day?

Thanks for info! Also im interested in this… Wanted to start cutti g on this diet, but i constantly feel hungry and my apetite has never been bigger. I eat aroind 4500 cals and my maintenance cals should be 18x bw (im 80kg at around 9% bf, so it equals around 3000cals). What do you suggest?

Another issue that i have with cardio… Do i need any type of cardio on thus diet (i lift 4x a week)? I used to do 2x hiit a week and i crashed. Maybe thats the reason i eat this much food these days.

Cheers!


#6

You count the carbs from veggies but subtract those in the form of fiber. So, if a veggie has 3 total grams of carbs and 2 are from fiber, you only count 1 gram towards your total.


#7

[quote]RoughRider76 wrote:
You count the carbs from veggies but subtract those in the form of fiber. So, if a veggie has 3 total grams of carbs and 2 are from fiber, you only count 1 gram towards your total.[/quote]

Make sure you’re accounting for this OP. I will say that if you think eating too many veggies is holding you back, you need to reevaluate what you’re eating(because it’s not the veggies).


#8

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]RoughRider76 wrote:
You count the carbs from veggies but subtract those in the form of fiber. So, if a veggie has 3 total grams of carbs and 2 are from fiber, you only count 1 gram towards your total.[/quote]

Make sure you’re accounting for this OP. I will say that if you think eating too many veggies is holding you back, you need to reevaluate what you’re eating(because it’s not the veggies).[/quote]

So the bottom line: i can eat as many green fibrous veggies as i want.

Thanks for that guys.

Do i need cardio on amabolic diet?

And about pwo meal: Common knowledge is that there should be no fats in both pwo shake and meal. Is it it the same for anabolic diet?


#9

Dammit, what is a ‘cup’? I always see the measurement bandied about, and have no idea what it is. What size cup? Is it volume-based or weight-based? And if volume based, does that mean you compress as much veggies as possible into this cup, or do you let it fill out naturally?

How many grams are in a cup? If it’s a nice round 100g, are you saying you eat 1500 - 2000g of veggies per day? If so, considering that amount of vegetables would contain only about 100 calories yet would fill you up substantially - how do you bulk at the same time?


#10

[quote]Ripsaw3689 wrote:

[quote]RoughRider76 wrote:
You count the carbs from veggies but subtract those in the form of fiber. So, if a veggie has 3 total grams of carbs and 2 are from fiber, you only count 1 gram towards your total.[/quote]

Make sure you’re accounting for this OP. I will say that if you think eating too many veggies is holding you back, you need to reevaluate what you’re eating(because it’s not the veggies).[/quote]
No, you get Calories from fiber as well. And you can definitely gain weight by overdoing vegetables.


#11

I have been on the anabolic diet for a couple of years. A few things:

It’s not just a fat loss diet. It’s a diet to grow on as well. But, I am assuming from your questions that you are just using it for fat loss. So, you only count carbs that are processed by your body for energy. That does not include fibre. Fibre goes right through you and cleans out your gut and also forms a transport for dragging through waste products.

So, if you have a meal with 20g of carbs but 15g are fibre then you only count 5g. It’s logical, right? 15g of carbs are not being digested for energy, they are just moving through your gut. It’s like you ate a handfull of sand. You ain’t gonna get no energy from dat.

You can use a number of web sites to calculate your fibre content. One of my favourites is calorieking.com.au which divides up into fibre and other carbs.

If you are eating heaps of veges, just make sure they are the right kind, namely high fibre green stuff. Keep it up. They do you good.

As for HIIT or cardio during dieting. Um, well. It’s got nothing to do with your diet. I assume you are wanting to do cardio to increase fat burning. You can, but as you said, you crashed so you are probably on a fairly restricted calorie intake. You will get more fat burning from controling your diet and increasing your metabolic rate than cardio. But it’s up to you. As long as it’s not affecting your training, put some in. For me, my cardio, cutting or growing, consists of a morning walk. Dats it. Unless you are in an endurance sport, keep it short and low impact.

Control your calories and you will get great results while having lots of energy. Works great for me.


#12

[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:
I have been on the anabolic diet for a couple of years. A few things:

It’s not just a fat loss diet. It’s a diet to grow on as well. But, I am assuming from your questions that you are just using it for fat loss. So, you only count carbs that are processed by your body for energy. That does not include fibre. Fibre goes right through you and cleans out your gut and also forms a transport for dragging through waste products.

So, if you have a meal with 20g of carbs but 15g are fibre then you only count 5g. It’s logical, right? 15g of carbs are not being digested for energy, they are just moving through your gut. It’s like you ate a handfull of sand. You ain’t gonna get no energy from dat.

You can use a number of web sites to calculate your fibre content. One of my favourites is calorieking.com.au which divides up into fibre and other carbs.

If you are eating heaps of veges, just make sure they are the right kind, namely high fibre green stuff. Keep it up. They do you good.

As for HIIT or cardio during dieting. Um, well. It’s got nothing to do with your diet. I assume you are wanting to do cardio to increase fat burning. You can, but as you said, you crashed so you are probably on a fairly restricted calorie intake. You will get more fat burning from controling your diet and increasing your metabolic rate than cardio. But it’s up to you. As long as it’s not affecting your training, put some in. For me, my cardio, cutting or growing, consists of a morning walk. Dats it. Unless you are in an endurance sport, keep it short and low impact.

Control your calories and you will get great results while having lots of energy. Works great for me.[/quote]

Cheers for that tricep!

So i wont count calories from green vegies , coz i guess they do me more good than bad.

What about pwo shake and meal? Fat free? The common theory is that fats in pwo shake and meal slow down pritein absorption and hence they are avoided.

Im currently on 3100 cal which is my maintenance. Can i build muscle and burn fat at the sam time?


#13

[quote]Podgorica10 wrote:

Cheers for that tricep!

So i wont count calories from green vegies , coz i guess they do me more good than bad.

What about pwo shake and meal? Fat free? The common theory is that fats in pwo shake and meal slow down pritein absorption and hence they are avoided.

Im currently on 3100 cal which is my maintenance. Can i build muscle and burn fat at the sam time?[/quote]

Count the calories, if you are on a calorie restricted diet, just don’t count the fibre as carbs. Just count the carbs that are not fibre.

The whole pre/post workout meal thing is primarily a means to make you buy protein powder. The human body is not that simple. You need a decent meal prior to work out. Depending on the time of day that you work out, that may be 2 or 3 meals. If you have a decent meal or meals pre workout, you don’t need anything else, unless you want something fun like a stimulant of some kind (coffee and beta alanine is fun). Post workout you need a steak and salad with olive oil. This is the recommended meal suggested by Mauro De Pasquale, the inventor of the anabolic/metabolic diet. That is enough to give you the insulin you need without the negative effects of fat storage and anabolic suppression.

Yes, you can lose fat and grow muscle at the same time, especially for a fat, unfit person who is a beginner. If you have been training for a while, you get better results by targeting either fat loss (over rated if you are sub 12%) or muscle growth.

Remember, strong people are harder to kill and females will mate with a rich fat guy in preference to a poor skinny ripped guy.

Don’t over think it. Stick to the diet. Train hard and get 9 hours sleep.


#14

[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:

[quote]Podgorica10 wrote:

Cheers for that tricep!

So i wont count calories from green vegies , coz i guess they do me more good than bad.

What about pwo shake and meal? Fat free? The common theory is that fats in pwo shake and meal slow down pritein absorption and hence they are avoided.

Im currently on 3100 cal which is my maintenance. Can i build muscle and burn fat at the sam time?[/quote]

Count the calories, if you are on a calorie restricted diet, just don’t count the fibre as carbs. Just count the carbs that are not fibre.

The whole pre/post workout meal thing is primarily a means to make you buy protein powder. The human body is not that simple. You need a decent meal prior to work out. Depending on the time of day that you work out, that may be 2 or 3 meals. If you have a decent meal or meals pre workout, you don’t need anything else, unless you want something fun like a stimulant of some kind (coffee and beta alanine is fun). Post workout you need a steak and salad with olive oil. This is the recommended meal suggested by Mauro De Pasquale, the inventor of the anabolic/metabolic diet. That is enough to give you the insulin you need without the negative effects of fat storage and anabolic suppression.

Yes, you can lose fat and grow muscle at the same time, especially for a fat, unfit person who is a beginner. If you have been training for a while, you get better results by targeting either fat loss (over rated if you are sub 12%) or muscle growth.

Remember, strong people are harder to kill and females will mate with a rich fat guy in preference to a poor skinny ripped guy.

Don’t over think it. Stick to the diet. Train hard and get 9 hours sleep.
[/quote]

Wow Triceptaurus, thats was incredibly useful! You really sound like someone who is pretty into this diet.

What is the storry about pwo shake? Do you think we actually need it? And if yes, is it just weigh, or whet plus some fats? I take 40g whey and 20 g glutamine, with 5 g creatine.

If i add up calorries from vegies thats another 300-400cals, damn it!

Coz im probably around 9-10%bf, do you think i should bulk up? I have been training for 3 years, but only in the last year i saw some results. Mauro actually advises not to go over 10% bf when bulking, thats why i was thinking to cut down to 6% and do a bulk.

Im convinced that im a hardgai er, coz with this much effort and with diet and training spot on, i still cant build muscle. A couple of mnths ago i was doing a bulk for a mnth, i ate a lot and i put 3 kg on in a mnth, however all 3 kg were fat:(. Do you think the same will happen on anabolic diet? Its just hard for me to build muscle.

Maybe you dont have experience with this but i will bring it up since i see you are pretty experienced. I was on trt protocol until a couple a days off. Now that i stopped trt im affraid i will lose some muscle and strength. However i hope that with anabolic diet this wont happen, and that i caj put some muscle on and lose fat. Any experience with this?

Thanks heaps.


#15

[quote]Podgorica10 wrote:

Wow Triceptaurus, thats was incredibly useful! You really sound like someone who is pretty into this diet.

What is the storry about pwo shake? Do you think we actually need it? And if yes, is it just weigh, or whet plus some fats? I take 40g whey and 20 g glutamine, with 5 g creatine.

If i add up calorries from vegies thats another 300-400cals, damn it!

Coz im probably around 9-10%bf, do you think i should bulk up? I have been training for 3 years, but only in the last year i saw some results. Mauro actually advises not to go over 10% bf when bulking, thats why i was thinking to cut down to 6% and do a bulk.

Im convinced that im a hardgai er, coz with this much effort and with diet and training spot on, i still cant build muscle. A couple of mnths ago i was doing a bulk for a mnth, i ate a lot and i put 3 kg on in a mnth, however all 3 kg were fat:(. Do you think the same will happen on anabolic diet? Its just hard for me to build muscle.

Maybe you dont have experience with this but i will bring it up since i see you are pretty experienced. I was on trt protocol until a couple a days off. Now that i stopped trt im affraid i will lose some muscle and strength. However i hope that with anabolic diet this wont happen, and that i caj put some muscle on and lose fat. Any experience with this?

Thanks heaps.[/quote]

First off, just to let you know that there is no one simple answer that fits everyone. To some extent you have to sort stuff out on your own to see what works for you.

PWO shakes are not vital. They are useful if you are not going to have a meal for a couple of hours. But, contrary to the bros who think that you gonna shrivel up and die if you don’t “slam down 50g of whey” within 5 seconds of dropping your last weight on the floor, which someone else has to pick up.

The human body is not that fragile. As long as you have eaten well the day prior then again prior to workout, you ain’t gonna deplete every gram of glycogen in your body. In fact your body needs to wind down from a heavy workout before it can assimilate protein properly.

If you are going to eat within an hour of working out, you don’t need whey. That does not mean you shouldn’t, it just means you don’t have to fret about it, despite the extreme guidelines of protein producers. There is no “window” of optimum protein intake. Just get it done within an hour or so of your workout, if only to make sure you get more nutrients in later in the day/night.

Don’t forget. Muscle is made of amino acids (protein) and fat (used to make the cell membranes and lots of other goodies). Carbs are not part of the muscle structure.

Should you bulk? Up to you. Depends on what you want. Just pick an goal and nail it. If you are following the metabolic diet all you have to do to grow more/faster is to add more food, primarily protein and fat. 6% is a very low fat level. A true 6% that is. If you are young then you should be looking at growing, not getting smaller. Take advantage of the hormone surge.

But you mention TRT so maybe you are older. If you need TRT, stick to it. You will progress better if your body has a lack in the hormone department and you are fixing that with TRT. Low test will make for very hard gains, if any. It will also make fat harder to shift.

If you put on 3kg using the metabolic diet but it was “all fat” (very hard to tell without a body scan) then maybe your hormones were not at thier best. A hard gainer, IF your hormones are balanced, is having issues purely because they are not doing the big 3, eat big, train hard and heavy, sleep deep and long. Drop the ball on any one and you are going to have limited results.

Bit hard to give more specific advice without being your doctor with full blood test results in front of me. Bottom line, simple works every time. Don’t fret on the little stuff (veges, bicep curls and supplements), just lift heavy compounds, eat enough to put on 500g per week and sleep for 8-9 hours. If your hormones are on track, you will succeed.


#16

[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:

[quote]Podgorica10 wrote:

Wow Triceptaurus, thats was incredibly useful! You really sound like someone who is pretty into this diet.

What is the storry about pwo shake? Do you think we actually need it? And if yes, is it just weigh, or whet plus some fats? I take 40g whey and 20 g glutamine, with 5 g creatine.

If i add up calorries from vegies thats another 300-400cals, damn it!

Coz im probably around 9-10%bf, do you think i should bulk up? I have been training for 3 years, but only in the last year i saw some results. Mauro actually advises not to go over 10% bf when bulking, thats why i was thinking to cut down to 6% and do a bulk.

Im convinced that im a hardgai er, coz with this much effort and with diet and training spot on, i still cant build muscle. A couple of mnths ago i was doing a bulk for a mnth, i ate a lot and i put 3 kg on in a mnth, however all 3 kg were fat:(. Do you think the same will happen on anabolic diet? Its just hard for me to build muscle.

Maybe you dont have experience with this but i will bring it up since i see you are pretty experienced. I was on trt protocol until a couple a days off. Now that i stopped trt im affraid i will lose some muscle and strength. However i hope that with anabolic diet this wont happen, and that i caj put some muscle on and lose fat. Any experience with this?

Thanks heaps.[/quote]

First off, just to let you know that there is no one simple answer that fits everyone. To some extent you have to sort stuff out on your own to see what works for you.

PWO shakes are not vital. They are useful if you are not going to have a meal for a couple of hours. But, contrary to the bros who think that you gonna shrivel up and die if you don’t “slam down 50g of whey” within 5 seconds of dropping your last weight on the floor, which someone else has to pick up.

The human body is not that fragile. As long as you have eaten well the day prior then again prior to workout, you ain’t gonna deplete every gram of glycogen in your body. In fact your body needs to wind down from a heavy workout before it can assimilate protein properly.

If you are going to eat within an hour of working out, you don’t need whey. That does not mean you shouldn’t, it just means you don’t have to fret about it, despite the extreme guidelines of protein producers. There is no “window” of optimum protein intake. Just get it done within an hour or so of your workout, if only to make sure you get more nutrients in later in the day/night.

Don’t forget. Muscle is made of amino acids (protein) and fat (used to make the cell membranes and lots of other goodies). Carbs are not part of the muscle structure.

Should you bulk? Up to you. Depends on what you want. Just pick an goal and nail it. If you are following the metabolic diet all you have to do to grow more/faster is to add more food, primarily protein and fat. 6% is a very low fat level. A true 6% that is. If you are young then you should be looking at growing, not getting smaller. Take advantage of the hormone surge.

But you mention TRT so maybe you are older. If you need TRT, stick to it. You will progress better if your body has a lack in the hormone department and you are fixing that with TRT. Low test will make for very hard gains, if any. It will also make fat harder to shift.

If you put on 3kg using the metabolic diet but it was “all fat” (very hard to tell without a body scan) then maybe your hormones were not at thier best. A hard gainer, IF your hormones are balanced, is having issues purely because they are not doing the big 3, eat big, train hard and heavy, sleep deep and long. Drop the ball on any one and you are going to have limited results.

Bit hard to give more specific advice without being your doctor with full blood test results in front of me. Bottom line, simple works every time. Don’t fret on the little stuff (veges, bicep curls and supplements), just lift heavy compounds, eat enough to put on 500g per week and sleep for 8-9 hours. If your hormones are on track, you will succeed.[/quote]

I think i was confusing with my explanations Triceptorius. I’ll try to correct myself.

Im 32 yrs old and i ve been on trt for 9 mnths (first test e and then test troches). The therapy aborted by my dr since it made me infertile. This is 3rd day for me off trt and i feel just as usual (until 3 days ago i was taking test troches). My strength has actually gone up. I was thinking anabolic diet can actually help me feel and perform even better than on trt.

The 3 kg i gained wasnt on anabolic diet. It was moderate carbs/high protein high fat diet. Thats why im hoping that i can actually put muscle and not so much fat once i start bulking on anabolic diet.


#17

[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:

[quote]Podgorica10 wrote:

Don’t forget. Muscle is made of amino acids (protein) and fat (used to make the cell membranes and lots of other goodies). Carbs are not part of the muscle structure.

Oh no ? Then what about stored glycogen ?


#18

If you follow the diet to the letter you should get great results. The bottom line is that to grow, you will put on some fat. The standard approach is to grow for, say, 6 months, then cut the fat for a few months. Rinse and repeat.


#19

Triceptaurus your thoughts on workout nutrition are the exact same as mine


#20

[quote]butcherman7 wrote:

[quote]Triceptaurus wrote:

[quote]Podgorica10 wrote:

Don’t forget. Muscle is made of amino acids (protein) and fat (used to make the cell membranes and lots of other goodies). Carbs are not part of the muscle structure.

Oh no ? Then what about stored glycogen ?
[/quote]

It’s stored.

So it’s in a container.

The container is made of amino acids and fat.

The contents come and go. The container stays put. Get it?