T Nation

Core Training For Deadlifts


#1

Hey guys, I think that I have a problem. Lately I have been training my Deadlift very well but I didn' t train my core, so even though I have increased my Deadlift my core is the weak link in the chain so I tend to bend over a lot and loose lots of strength.

My Current Training:

Tuesday: Bench Press and Accessory Exercises
Wednesday: Box Squat and Accessory Exercises
Friday: OHP and Accessory Exercises
Sunday: Deadlift and Accessory Exercises

The accessory exercises that I do on my Deadlift are as follows:

Deadlift ( work-up to top set )
Romanian Deadlift ( 1 set to Failure, High Reps )
DL stance box squat
Barbell Shrugs ( work-up to top set, High Reps )
Dumbell Rows
Cable Rows
Leg Curls ( 5 sets of 10 reps )
Plate Pinches

My question is:

Which exercises should I do to increase my core strength?
How frequently should I do then?
How intense should I be?
How much volume do I need?


#2

It is honestly incredibly rare that someone bends over on the deadlift due to a lack of strength. Far more often it is the case that one is employing bad technique that is not allowing one to utilize the strength that they have built.

Do you have a video of your deadlift? It’s possible you have some “leaks” in your technique that is preventing you from using your core.

But, to contribute, reverse hypers changed my life.


#3

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It is honestly incredibly rare that someone bends over on the deadlift due to a lack of strength. Far more often it is the case that one is employing bad technique that is not allowing one to utilize the strength that they have built.

Do you have a video of your deadlift? It’s possible you have some “leaks” in your technique that is preventing you from using your core.

But, to contribute, reverse hypers changed my life.[/quote]

Agree on need for video. Likewise on reverse hypers being awesome.

Mini hijack: on a roller reverse hyper is using a fair bit of momentum ok? I find what it mostly does is make my lower back really happy. I like that.

Back to topic, OP until I see a video I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by bending over. Do you mean your hips shoot up or that you get pulled forward by the weight? Either way, video please.


#4

I agree with the above.

You might not be bracing your abs and/or using your hips effectively. Increasing assistance work for those areas can help but doesn’t guarantee your main lift will improve unless you really focus on building technique and not the weight on the bar.


#5

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It is honestly incredibly rare that someone bends over on the deadlift due to a lack of strength. Far more often it is the case that one is employing bad technique that is not allowing one to utilize the strength that they have built.

Do you have a video of your deadlift? It’s possible you have some “leaks” in your technique that is preventing you from using your core.

But, to contribute, reverse hypers changed my life.[/quote]

Agree on need for video. Likewise on reverse hypers being awesome.

Mini hijack: on a roller reverse hyper is using a fair bit of momentum ok? I find what it mostly does is make my lower back really happy. I like that.

Back to topic, OP until I see a video I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by bending over. Do you mean your hips shoot up or that you get pulled forward by the weight? Either way, video please. [/quote]

I use a strap, but in general momentum is one of the ways to train the reverse hyper. You can do that, strict, for reps, for time, etc. As long as it’s getting you the results you want, it’s right.


#6

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It is honestly incredibly rare that someone bends over on the deadlift due to a lack of strength. Far more often it is the case that one is employing bad technique that is not allowing one to utilize the strength that they have built.

Do you have a video of your deadlift? It’s possible you have some “leaks” in your technique that is preventing you from using your core.

But, to contribute, reverse hypers changed my life.[/quote]

Agree on need for video. Likewise on reverse hypers being awesome.

Mini hijack: on a roller reverse hyper is using a fair bit of momentum ok? I find what it mostly does is make my lower back really happy. I like that.

Back to topic, OP until I see a video I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by bending over. Do you mean your hips shoot up or that you get pulled forward by the weight? Either way, video please. [/quote]

I use a strap, but in general momentum is one of the ways to train the reverse hyper. You can do that, strict, for reps, for time, etc. As long as it’s getting you the results you want, it’s right.
[/quote]

Sweet. Thanks. I like that approach.


#7

You need to learn to brace your abs and use your lats. I have found that direct ab work is a waste of time, you are training spinal flexion when that is exactly what you want to avoid. The one exception is the ab wheel, but I find that makes my hip flexors tight.


#8

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It is honestly incredibly rare that someone bends over on the deadlift due to a lack of strength. Far more often it is the case that one is employing bad technique that is not allowing one to utilize the strength that they have built.

Do you have a video of your deadlift? It’s possible you have some “leaks” in your technique that is preventing you from using your core.

But, to contribute, reverse hypers changed my life.[/quote]

Agree on need for video. Likewise on reverse hypers being awesome.

Mini hijack: on a roller reverse hyper is using a fair bit of momentum ok? I find what it mostly does is make my lower back really happy. I like that.

Back to topic, OP until I see a video I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by bending over. Do you mean your hips shoot up or that you get pulled forward by the weight? Either way, video please. [/quote]

I use a strap, but in general momentum is one of the ways to train the reverse hyper. You can do that, strict, for reps, for time, etc. As long as it’s getting you the results you want, it’s right.
[/quote]

Sweet. Thanks. I like that approach. [/quote]
Louie Simmons invented the reverse hyper and the way he advises to use it is with momentum. Going slow can be dangerous because it puts shear force on your spine.


#9

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It is honestly incredibly rare that someone bends over on the deadlift due to a lack of strength. Far more often it is the case that one is employing bad technique that is not allowing one to utilize the strength that they have built.

Do you have a video of your deadlift? It’s possible you have some “leaks” in your technique that is preventing you from using your core.

But, to contribute, reverse hypers changed my life.[/quote]

Agree on need for video. Likewise on reverse hypers being awesome.

Mini hijack: on a roller reverse hyper is using a fair bit of momentum ok? I find what it mostly does is make my lower back really happy. I like that.

Back to topic, OP until I see a video I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by bending over. Do you mean your hips shoot up or that you get pulled forward by the weight? Either way, video please. [/quote]

I use a strap, but in general momentum is one of the ways to train the reverse hyper. You can do that, strict, for reps, for time, etc. As long as it’s getting you the results you want, it’s right.
[/quote]

Sweet. Thanks. I like that approach. [/quote]
Louie Simmons invented the reverse hyper and the way he advises to use it is with momentum. Going slow can be dangerous because it puts shear force on your spine.[/quote]

Dave Tate talks about some of the various methods available with it here

Louie has definitely put a lot of stuff out there.


#10

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:

[quote]MarkKO wrote:

[quote]T3hPwnisher wrote:
It is honestly incredibly rare that someone bends over on the deadlift due to a lack of strength. Far more often it is the case that one is employing bad technique that is not allowing one to utilize the strength that they have built.

Do you have a video of your deadlift? It’s possible you have some “leaks” in your technique that is preventing you from using your core.

But, to contribute, reverse hypers changed my life.[/quote]

Agree on need for video. Likewise on reverse hypers being awesome.

Mini hijack: on a roller reverse hyper is using a fair bit of momentum ok? I find what it mostly does is make my lower back really happy. I like that.

Back to topic, OP until I see a video I’m not entirely sure I know what you mean by bending over. Do you mean your hips shoot up or that you get pulled forward by the weight? Either way, video please. [/quote]

I use a strap, but in general momentum is one of the ways to train the reverse hyper. You can do that, strict, for reps, for time, etc. As long as it’s getting you the results you want, it’s right.
[/quote]

Sweet. Thanks. I like that approach. [/quote]
Louie Simmons invented the reverse hyper and the way he advises to use it is with momentum. Going slow can be dangerous because it puts shear force on your spine.[/quote]

The best way I can describe how it feels to me is a violent hug for my lower back. Initially it feels odd and vaguely disturbing but very shortly after it feels great.


#11

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:
You need to learn to brace your abs and use your lats. I have found that direct ab work is a waste of time, you are training spinal flexion when that is exactly what you want to avoid. The one exception is the ab wheel, but I find that makes my hip flexors tight.[/quote]

Do you mean tight as in getting a pump after training it? I feel like getting the hip flexors tight (as in recruiting the muscles) during a lift is a good thing. Tight hip flexors because of lack of mobility is entirely different.


#12

[quote]lift206 wrote:

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:
You need to learn to brace your abs and use your lats. I have found that direct ab work is a waste of time, you are training spinal flexion when that is exactly what you want to avoid. The one exception is the ab wheel, but I find that makes my hip flexors tight.[/quote]

Do you mean tight as in getting a pump after training it? I feel like getting the hip flexors tight (as in recruiting the muscles) during a lift is a good thing. Tight hip flexors because of lack of mobility is entirely different.[/quote]

I mean tight as in they feel tight, if I squat or deadlift the next day I feel like my hips/pelvis are not in the right position (ie. butt wink) until I get warmed up. I don’t see how tight hip flexors could be the result of a lack of mobility (unless you are in a wheelchair) but rather the cause of poor mobility. If you like to train your hip flexors then don’t let me stop you, but I don’t hear of anyone else intentionally doing that.

The thing with training abs is that every time you squat or deadlift you have to brace your abs, so how is any other exercise more specific to bracing your abs for a squat or deadlift than actually doing that? I used to do lots of ab work, but I came to realize that it did absolutely nothing for me except make my hip flexors tight and make squatting to depth ore difficult. Tight hip flexors also inhibit glute activation, so that’s something else to consider. If you are determined to train abs then probably something like standing crunches with a band or lat pulldown machine would be a good option. Hip flexors get worked every time you squat or bend over in any way, so there is no reason that I can think of to do extra work for them.


#13

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:
I mean tight as in they feel tight, if I squat or deadlift the next day I feel like my hips/pelvis are not in the right position (ie. butt wink) until I get warmed up. I don’t see how tight hip flexors could be the result of a lack of mobility (unless you are in a wheelchair) but rather the cause of poor mobility. If you like to train your hip flexors then don’t let me stop you, but I don’t hear of anyone else intentionally doing that.

The thing with training abs is that every time you squat or deadlift you have to brace your abs, so how is any other exercise more specific to bracing your abs for a squat or deadlift than actually doing that? I used to do lots of ab work, but I came to realize that it did absolutely nothing for me except make my hip flexors tight and make squatting to depth ore difficult. Tight hip flexors also inhibit glute activation, so that’s something else to consider. If you are determined to train abs then probably something like standing crunches with a band or lat pulldown machine would be a good option. Hip flexors get worked every time you squat or bend over in any way, so there is no reason that I can think of to do extra work for them.[/quote]

I see what you mean and I agree that there is no right or wrong. It really depends on the person.

I think where we have a misunderstanding is in discussing tightness to explain poor mobility vs muscle recruitment. When referring to tight hip flexors because of poor mobility, most people are referring to limited range of motion where the hip flexors feel tight at the end range of motion. What I was referring to was getting them tight as in recruiting those muscles and keeping them tight throughout the range of motion so they remain under tension.

I don’t agree that the hip flexors automatically get strengthened in the squat/deadlift because it really depends on a person’s technique. It’s common to see weak hip flexors be the cause of bad form, especially for beginners starting off.

All I’m trying to differentiate is mobility and strength. A person can have very mobile hip flexors that can be very weak or very strong, and the opposite can also be true. I’m just trying to prevent confusion since you talked about strengthening your hip flexors and saying that it is related to mobility issues but that is more of an individual thing.

Tight hip flexors (with respect to limited range of motion) inhibiting glute activation is directly related to mobility and not strength. It’s definitely nice not to have to train hip flexors directly but some people can benefit from it.


#14

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:

[quote]lift206 wrote:

[quote]chris_ottawa wrote:
You need to learn to brace your abs and use your lats. I have found that direct ab work is a waste of time, you are training spinal flexion when that is exactly what you want to avoid. The one exception is the ab wheel, but I find that makes my hip flexors tight.[/quote]

Do you mean tight as in getting a pump after training it? I feel like getting the hip flexors tight (as in recruiting the muscles) during a lift is a good thing. Tight hip flexors because of lack of mobility is entirely different.[/quote]

I mean tight as in they feel tight, if I squat or deadlift the next day I feel like my hips/pelvis are not in the right position (ie. butt wink) until I get warmed up. I don’t see how tight hip flexors could be the result of a lack of mobility (unless you are in a wheelchair) but rather the cause of poor mobility. If you like to train your hip flexors then don’t let me stop you, but I don’t hear of anyone else intentionally doing that.

The thing with training abs is that every time you squat or deadlift you have to brace your abs, so how is any other exercise more specific to bracing your abs for a squat or deadlift than actually doing that? I used to do lots of ab work, but I came to realize that it did absolutely nothing for me except make my hip flexors tight and make squatting to depth ore difficult. Tight hip flexors also inhibit glute activation, so that’s something else to consider. If you are determined to train abs then probably something like standing crunches with a band or lat pulldown machine would be a good option. Hip flexors get worked every time you squat or bend over in any way, so there is no reason that I can think of to do extra work for them.[/quote]

I find that the most important part for me is keeping a neutral spine. If I over extend your low back even a little bit I pay for it a lot with losing ab tension, which really punishes you with heavy weights. I have moved to kneeling cable ab work and planking, because everything else irritates my hips.


#15

Are you a geared lifter? just wondering why you only do box squats and maybe give high bar squats a try if you’re rounding, they will force you to remain upright throughout the whole lift.


#16
  1. Train the movement beltless. To a certain point. Building that point up over time. Every single rep focus on your breathing and bracing as well as staying tight from taking the slack outta the bottom all the way through lockout.

  2. Highbar olympic style beltless paused squats. Full pauses staying tight through the entire movement. Start light and build from there. A good amount of sets and reps will really build your core/abs up from all the bracing.

  3. AB wheels. From your knees. Aim for a good amount of sets and reps. With all the same bracing and staying tight for the aforementioned squats/deads. Later on you can add pauses, higher reps ect… but your first few sessions may leave you feeling quite destroyed if you go all in…