T Nation

Cop Bashing

i thought i would start a thread in reference to some statements made by others about the failings of law enforcement in this county.

i have been a police officer since 2002, and by no means am an expert in all things in criminal investigation.

However, there seems to be an increasinly critical eye of how LEO perfrom their duties, especially from those who have never done the job.

i know there are some people of different races that state they have been harrassed based off of their race. this may or may not be true…in the city i work, we are required to give a “dispostition code” after each interaction with the public, based off of their race, age and gender. if a complaint arises, then our internal affairs division can check the calls that we went on and verify our intereaction with the public.

and thoses of us that work in areas with a high population of minorities are simply going to interact with more people of certain minorities, simply based off of the population.

unless there is a call for service, LEO’s need to have probable cause to initiate a traffic stop or stop someone walking on the sidewalk. now if i see a car pull up to a known drug house for a brief period, see someone walk out to the driver and walk away, i have probable cause to stop that car. if you want to know why you were stopped-ask. i always explain why i stopped someone, and rarely have any issues.

if in the investigation of a crime a suspect resists, officers have the right to escalate the use of force in order to take this person into custody. obviously we have many tools at our disposal, and are required by our departments to use those tools in accordance to the training we’ve recieved on them. for instance, in our defensive tatics training, we are taught punches, elbow and knee strikes, kicks, joint locks and various other techniques in order to gain compliance. if someone pushes away from me and refuses to comply with my commands, i am authorized to use force to take them into custody. and whenever i do, i ensure that information is in my arrest reports, and that the suspect gets medical treatment, if needed.

all officers know that people do not want to go to jail, and may resist. however, they are not allowed to resist arrest, and there is an additional charged filed against the suspect if they do so.

i have been injured three times in my career when detaining suspects, and all of my co-workers have been injured as well. some of these can be as minor as twisting an ankle chasing a suspect over uneven terrain, to being hospitalized in a motor vehicle accident because a robbery suspect fled the scene, endangering the lives of the public as well.

every officer i know takes it personally when someone tries to fight with them, and they should. if i am injured in a fight, that means i am unable to work, and another officer has to take over my ward (or beat) because i am out. also, overtime pay increases if other officers are needed to work over, thereby costing the taxpayers more money. and all of us understand the risk in our profession, but obviously nobody wants to get hurt.

i am not asking for pat on the back, or trying to state that my profession makes me better than someone else. i am simply trying to explain some details to those who don’t have any practical experience with law enforcement. many of you have jobs that i know nothing about, and i respect your lifesyle and am not going to blindly insult your competance or reasons for chosing your occupation.

for those of you that are intersted in learning more about LE or in bettering your community, i encourage you to look into doing “ride alongs” with you local law enforecement agencies, or even in becoming a reserve police officer.

for those of you that have only had negative experiences with law enforcement…well, i’m sorry. most people don’t want to see cops until they need them. and if you’ve been arrested, well…you made a mistake. i don’t look down on people for making a mistake and getting in trouble, unless they’re one of the lawless individuals who continues to break the law and put innocent citizens lives in danger.

anyway, hope this helps clear a few things up…

Cyco

Cyco

Most of those who bashed you on the other thread bash everything and everyone. I wouldn’t take them too seriously.

Folks who don’t have a criminal intent support the police. I’m 42 and I have never seen the police cruise around looking for someone to fuck up just because they felt like it. I have seen people get their ass kicked for acting like idiots, resisting arrest or trying to hide something.

Bottom line right or wrong, if you are getting arrested, resisting it is futile. It’s up to a court to decide. The cop is doing his job and if you are going to fuck with him then expect the same courtesy. If you don’t act like you are going to kick the cops ass, he will not usually kick yours.

I lived in NYC with the NYPD and never once had an issue with them despite numerous traffic stops and having a CCW permit. It’s about respect. I’ve been stopped by the NYPD in Brooklyn and Manhattan while carrying. Sinmply handed my id and permit over and then acted respectful. Never had a problem. I was also smart enough not to taunt them because I was phoony tough or an arrogant fool.

I saw that video from NO. I hate to see an old timer getting his ass kicked but I don’t know the entire story but I doubt if they just picked him out of a crowd to fuck up. If they did then it’s wrong but I seriosuly doubt that is what happened. More then likely he initiated it somehow.

hedo,

thanks for your input man. i know the NYPD went through a pretty drastic transformation (read “No Lights, No Siren”-awesome book!)…i think Rudy deserves the credit for that. maybe NO should consult him on a few things…

[quote]hedo wrote:
Cyco

Most of those who bashed you on the other thread bash everything and everyone. I wouldn’t take them too seriously.

Folks who don’t have a criminal intent support the police. I’m 42 and I have never seen the police cruise around looking for someone to fuck up just because theu felt like it. I have seen people get their ass kicked for acting like idiots, resisting arrest or trying to hide something.

Bottom line right or wrong, if you are getting arrested, resisting it is futile. It’s up to a court to decide. The cop is doing his job and if you are going to fuck with him then expect the same courtesy. If you don’t act like you are going to kick the cops ass, he will not usually kick yours.

I lived in NYC with the NYPD and never once had an issue with them despite numerous traffic stops and having a CCW permit. It’s about respect. I’ve been stopped by the NYPD in Brooklyn and Manhattan while carrying. Sinmply handed my id and permit over and then acted respectful. Never had a problem. I was also smart enough not to taunt them because I was phoony tough or an arrogant fool.

I saw that video from NO. I hate to see an old timer getting his ass kicked but I don’t know the entire story but I doubt if they just picked him out of a crowd to fuck up. If they did then it’s wrong but I seriosuly doubt that is what happened. More then likely he initiated it somehow.[/quote]

You live in Jersey and you have never seen the cops looking to fuck someone up? As mentioned on the other thread, there are many towns right around me where DWB is the biggest crime you can commit. And it gets you pulled over immediately.

Cyclo,

Not that I have to tell you, but dont take any of this personally. On that other thread, one of the geniuses that frequents
here actually posted “I dont even like cops”. Maybe its redundant, but lets replace that word cops with “asians” or “doctors” or “gays”. You an I both know that among certain circles, its still ok to hate an entire class of people simply because of what they do for a living. Often, it is the same crowd that prances around pretending to be tolerant and enlightened.

Ive posted on here about police issues a number of times and tried to explain some things in a fair way from a perspective behind the badge. Many of us dont have “authority” issues, yet that is the great big broad brush that gets thrown around. We’re also not all fat loads who need to “hide behind a gun”. Off the top of my head, I counted
a competitive natural bodybuilder, a former champion powerlifter, an NFL player, a couple of well-respected college wrestlers and an mma fighter(myself) in my department. Not all fat donut sucking pussies.

I’ll also be the first to tell you that some of the guys that are employed in this profession embarass me with their laziness or their disrespectful treatment of the public. Ive made it a point to try and modify their behavior whenever I could.

I guess the bottom line is there will always be the this ironic love/hate relationship between us and the people we have sworn to protect.

Every good cop knows why he puts on the badge and frankly doesnt give a shit about those who hate him for it.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hedo wrote:
Cyco

Most of those who bashed you on the other thread bash everything and everyone. I wouldn’t take them too seriously.

Folks who don’t have a criminal intent support the police. I’m 42 and I have never seen the police cruise around looking for someone to fuck up just because theu felt like it. I have seen people get their ass kicked for acting like idiots, resisting arrest or trying to hide something.

Bottom line right or wrong, if you are getting arrested, resisting it is futile. It’s up to a court to decide. The cop is doing his job and if you are going to fuck with him then expect the same courtesy. If you don’t act like you are going to kick the cops ass, he will not usually kick yours.

I lived in NYC with the NYPD and never once had an issue with them despite numerous traffic stops and having a CCW permit. It’s about respect. I’ve been stopped by the NYPD in Brooklyn and Manhattan while carrying. Sinmply handed my id and permit over and then acted respectful. Never had a problem. I was also smart enough not to taunt them because I was phoony tough or an arrogant fool.

I saw that video from NO. I hate to see an old timer getting his ass kicked but I don’t know the entire story but I doubt if they just picked him out of a crowd to fuck up. If they did then it’s wrong but I seriosuly doubt that is what happened. More then likely he initiated it somehow.

You live in Jersey and you have never seen the cops looking to fuck someone up? As mentioned on the other thread, there are many towns right around me where DWB is the biggest crime you can commit. And it gets you pulled over immediately.[/quote]

Fighting

No I never did. I have lived here less then a year and the cops around here don’t fuck with me at all. My nieghborhood is pretty diverse too. Not as diverse as NYC but it is multi-cultural. The pull a lot of people over for DWI and I support that. In fact about 75% of the arrests in my town are for DWI and vandalism by kids.

I am pretty mature and I don’t look for trouble, especially from the police. However, I am sure if I folks are looking to prove how tough they are, most pd’s will be more then happy to show you. That’s my point. If you act respectful to the police they give it. If you act like a punk, you shouldn’t expect courtesy in return.

So no I have never seen the cops in my town beat anyone up in the past year.

[quote]cycobushmaster wrote:
hedo,

thanks for your input man. i know the NYPD went through a pretty drastic transformation (read “No Lights, No Siren”-awesome book!)…i think Rudy deserves the credit for that. maybe NO should consult him on a few things…[/quote]

Bratton and Timmoney set the standard for a professionally run police force. I have felt safer in Manhattan at midnight then many other cities in the country in broad daylight.

I live across the street from our University, and a few months back a girl got abducted from the sidestreet that my apartment borders, and raped by five individuals in a van. Later on that week not one or two, but 7 police officers are standing outside my apartment telling me that “someone” had reported that the person living in my apartment had information about the people involved and I’m standing there looking at seven officers who’re standing there with the look to intimidate wondering how the fuck I could have information about it. That weekend as I’m walking home at 2am a police car follows me to my apartment. And two nights later as I’m walking up the steps to my building another cop car stops and watches me walk to my apartment.

This wasn’t isolated to me, however, as my neighbor told me the exact same thing had happened to him. Their response to the situation was to intimidate younger males living in the area, whether or not they were actually involved in the matter was unimportant, only the fact that they were younger males was.

Once while I was visiting my brother in Santa Clara and I was on leave from Iraq, I was awake at three am cause my clock was thrown off and decided to walk to a diner down the street and get some food. As I was walking home a cop pulled up in front of me and asked me where I was going and where I had come from. I was like,“what the fuck?” I’m walking home from the diner. They tell me I look like I’ve been drinking and they’ve had reports of some naughty college student in the area causing trouble, and I’m like what the fuck? I just ate breakfast…They tell me that I smell like I’m coming from the bar and I’m like what the hell? Some dude was smoking in the restaurant…so I have to prove my innocence by taking a breathilizer…it wasn’t like I’m a prick to them, I’m always fairly intimidated due to the interactions I’ve had in the past, and being in the military I’ve learned to call everyone sir or maam, but I don’t know why they treated me like this in this instance except for the fact that they’re pricks…

some forty-year old in khaki’s and a collared shirt walking down the street probably wouldn’t get harassed, but he could be a pedifile looking to kidnap some girl from her parent’s house.

I also hate to see cops hitting on chicks when they pull them over. My two friends got pulled over by the cops for riding with two people on a moped…and now one of the cops goes over to “check” on her at work.

i posted in another thread that my brother actually was beaten by the cops…i wont go into the whole story lets just say he was let off of his bs charges because there happened to be a camera outside the bar which recorded the whole thing…i was arrested that night for yelling at the cops telling them to stop and recieved a crack to the back myself(obstructing government justice was the charge) While i certainly realize there are many good cops who do their jobs well, there seems to me(in my experience) to be also some who like to harass, whether it is justified or not.i had the cuffs put on me for doing absolutely NOTHING, spent a buch of money on lawyers and spent 2 nights in jail for NOTHING,and the sad part is i think if that camera had not been there, both my brother and i would have criminal records right now…just posting my experience, as it relates to this thread

[quote]hedo wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
hedo wrote:
Cyco

Most of those who bashed you on the other thread bash everything and everyone. I wouldn’t take them too seriously.

Folks who don’t have a criminal intent support the police. I’m 42 and I have never seen the police cruise around looking for someone to fuck up just because theu felt like it. I have seen people get their ass kicked for acting like idiots, resisting arrest or trying to hide something.

Bottom line right or wrong, if you are getting arrested, resisting it is futile. It’s up to a court to decide. The cop is doing his job and if you are going to fuck with him then expect the same courtesy. If you don’t act like you are going to kick the cops ass, he will not usually kick yours.

I lived in NYC with the NYPD and never once had an issue with them despite numerous traffic stops and having a CCW permit. It’s about respect. I’ve been stopped by the NYPD in Brooklyn and Manhattan while carrying. Sinmply handed my id and permit over and then acted respectful. Never had a problem. I was also smart enough not to taunt them because I was phoony tough or an arrogant fool.

I saw that video from NO. I hate to see an old timer getting his ass kicked but I don’t know the entire story but I doubt if they just picked him out of a crowd to fuck up. If they did then it’s wrong but I seriosuly doubt that is what happened. More then likely he initiated it somehow.

You live in Jersey and you have never seen the cops looking to fuck someone up? As mentioned on the other thread, there are many towns right around me where DWB is the biggest crime you can commit. And it gets you pulled over immediately.

Fighting

No I never did. I have lived here less then a year and the cops around here don’t fuck with me at all. My nieghborhood is pretty diverse too. Not as diverse as NYC but it is multi-cultural. The pull a lot of people over for DWI and I support that. In fact about 75% of the arrests in my town are for DWI and vandalism by kids.

I am pretty mature and I don’t look for trouble, especially from the police. However, I am sure if I folks are looking to prove how tough they are, most pd’s will be more then happy to show you. That’s my point. If you act respectful to the police they give it. If you act like a punk, you shouldn’t expect courtesy in return.

So no I have never seen the cops in my town beat anyone up in the past year.

[/quote]

Hey I have no problem with DWI arrests. I even got one myself. But they do their job, of course, and save lives doing it.m

However, in NJ at least, there are several police forces that are so racist it is ridiculous. I don’t want to mention any names, but even my own town is like this. If you are white, like I am, you will never even realize this goes on. But it does.

As for respect, I learned a lesson a long time ago that is proven true time and again. I don’t like the attitude that many cops have; kind of a better than you complex. I understand, however, that they deal with the crappiest people in the world, so I guess I would be irritable too. However, if you are nice to them, and they are dicks, you are fucked. If you are nice and they are cordial back, then its ok. They have so much more power than I do at any point that it simply isnt worth pissing them off.

Being a cop has got to be one of the toughest/ most stressful jobs in the world.

Dealing with liars and criminals all day would sure fuck up my normally sunny disposition.

Cops never get credit for anything good, but always get criticized regardless of if they are right or wrong.

I respect cops but at the same time I do not put a lot of trust in them.

[quote]mmg_4 wrote:
i posted in another thread that my brother actually was beaten by the cops…i wont go into the whole story lets just say he was let off of his bs charges because there happened to be a camera outside the bar which recorded the whole thing…i was arrested that night for yelling at the cops telling them to stop and recieved a crack to the back myself(obstructing government justice was the charge) While i certainly realize there are many good cops who do their jobs well, there seems to me(in my experience) to be also some who like to harass, whether it is justified or not.i had the cuffs put on me for doing absolutely NOTHING, spent a buch of money on lawyers and spent 2 nights in jail for NOTHING,and the sad part is i think if that camera had not been there, both my brother and i would have criminal records right now…just posting my experience, as it relates to this thread[/quote]

i’m sorry to hear that-i know that where i work, if you beat the shit out of somebody you better be able to explain it. i have put people in cuffs that i didn’t arrest…basically i was in a situation where i had about 100 people yelling at me and getting ready to fight, so i started cuffing all the troublemakers. once back-up showed up, we moved everybody along, and let the knuckleheads that were talking shit go…

of course they weren’t happy at first, but i explained that i could have charged them with disorderly conduct, so they shut up. a couple of those guys have been really good sources of informaton for me since then…

I remember my buddy was driving in Philly, we were both loaded and he turned left down some railroad tracks instead of the road.

He backed up into the intersection and made the turn onto the road.

There was a cop sitting right there and saw the whole thing.

I thought we were going to get pulled over for sure but my buddy said they wouldn’t mess with us because we are not black.

[quote]slimjim wrote:
I live across the street from our University, and a few months back a girl got abducted from the sidestreet that my apartment borders, and raped by five individuals in a van. Later on that week not one or two, but 7 police officers are standing outside my apartment telling me that “someone” had reported that the person living in my apartment had information about the people involved and I’m standing there looking at seven officers who’re standing there with the look to intimidate wondering how the fuck I could have information about it. That weekend as I’m walking home at 2am a police car follows me to my apartment. And two nights later as I’m walking up the steps to my building another cop car stops and watches me walk to my apartment.

This wasn’t isolated to me, however, as my neighbor told me the exact same thing had happened to him. Their response to the situation was to intimidate younger males living in the area, whether or not they were actually involved in the matter was unimportant, only the fact that they were younger males was.

Once while I was visiting my brother in Santa Clara and I was on leave from Iraq, I was awake at three am cause my clock was thrown off and decided to walk to a diner down the street and get some food. As I was walking home a cop pulled up in front of me and asked me where I was going and where I had come from. I was like,“what the fuck?” I’m walking home from the diner. They tell me I look like I’ve been drinking and they’ve had reports of some naughty college student in the area causing trouble, and I’m like what the fuck? I just ate breakfast…They tell me that I smell like I’m coming from the bar and I’m like what the hell? Some dude was smoking in the restaurant…so I have to prove my innocence by taking a breathilizer…it wasn’t like I’m a prick to them, I’m always fairly intimidated due to the interactions I’ve had in the past, and being in the military I’ve learned to call everyone sir or maam, but I don’t know why they treated me like this in this instance except for the fact that they’re pricks…

some forty-year old in khaki’s and a collared shirt walking down the street probably wouldn’t get harassed, but he could be a pedifile looking to kidnap some girl from her parent’s house.

I also hate to see cops hitting on chicks when they pull them over. My two friends got pulled over by the cops for riding with two people on a moped…and now one of the cops goes over to “check” on her at work.[/quote]

slimjim,

i know you’ve posted several times about your issues with cops. i know when i was in the Army (i’m still in the Guard now) i hated MP’s…never had a problem with regular cops, though.

i will say that people walking around at 3 in the morning usually are coming home from a bar, and there is pressure from our hgiher-ups (just like any other job) to enforce city and state codes when there’s an ongoing issue. sometimes it’s just uncomfortable interecting with people in an official capacity-did you ever have to chew one of your soldier’s asses who was a freind of yours? doesn’t mean you’re a prick-just that you have a responsibilty…

[quote]JD430 wrote:
Cyclo,

Not that I have to tell you, but dont take any of this personally. On that other thread, one of the geniuses that frequents
here actually posted “I dont even like cops”. Maybe its redundant, but lets replace that word cops with “asians” or “doctors” or “gays”. You an I both know that among certain circles, its still ok to hate an entire class of people simply because of what they do for a living. Often, it is the same crowd that prances around pretending to be tolerant and enlightened.
[/quote]

good points, man…kinda like whenever you’re out with freinds that aren’t cops, and they start telling you how they got a ticket, and expect you to fix it. that’s why a lot of cops tend to stick with other cops…

[quote]Zap Branigan wrote:
Being a cop has got to be one of the toughest/ most stressful jobs in the world.

Dealing with liars and criminals all day would sure fuck up my normally sunny disposition.

Cops never get credit for anything good, but always get criticized regardless of if they are right or wrong.

I respect cops but at the same time I do not put a lot of trust in them.

[/quote]

Zap,

it’s not really that tough (i think of my dad, who’s worked for 30+ years in factory as tough), but it is hard to keep your temper sometimes.

and unfortunately when there’s a public issue with the police, we’re not allowed to explain what happened, due to the fact that there’s a lot of information that we can’t give to the public (legally). that’s why so many departments appear to have a “code of silence”…ya just can’t say anything sometimes.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hedo wrote:
Cyco

Most of those who bashed you on the other thread bash everything and everyone. I wouldn’t take them too seriously.

Folks who don’t have a criminal intent support the police. I’m 42 and I have never seen the police cruise around looking for someone to fuck up just because theu felt like it. I have seen people get their ass kicked for acting like idiots, resisting arrest or trying to hide something.

Bottom line right or wrong, if you are getting arrested, resisting it is futile. It’s up to a court to decide. The cop is doing his job and if you are going to fuck with him then expect the same courtesy. If you don’t act like you are going to kick the cops ass, he will not usually kick yours.

I lived in NYC with the NYPD and never once had an issue with them despite numerous traffic stops and having a CCW permit. It’s about respect. I’ve been stopped by the NYPD in Brooklyn and Manhattan while carrying. Sinmply handed my id and permit over and then acted respectful. Never had a problem. I was also smart enough not to taunt them because I was phoony tough or an arrogant fool.

I saw that video from NO. I hate to see an old timer getting his ass kicked but I don’t know the entire story but I doubt if they just picked him out of a crowd to fuck up. If they did then it’s wrong but I seriosuly doubt that is what happened. More then likely he initiated it somehow.

You live in Jersey and you have never seen the cops looking to fuck someone up? As mentioned on the other thread, there are many towns right around me where DWB is the biggest crime you can commit. And it gets you pulled over immediately.[/quote]

well, they still gotta be able to articulate their probable cause…if not, they’re looking at a lawsuit.

Fightin Irish,

I’ll agree with you on that. It is a losing proposition getting the PD pissed off at you.

Nobody hates racism more then me and I will not deny it happens. I’ve been fortunate to see more professionalism then racism so I guess I am fortunate but everyone bases their view on what they experienced in life.

Watch those DWI’s bro. My lawyer once told me it’s cheaper to get a hotel room for the night then to call him and say I got a dwi. He had a good point.

[quote]FightinIrish26 wrote:
hedo wrote:
FightinIrish26 wrote:
hedo wrote:

Hey I have no problem with DWI arrests. I even got one myself. But they do their job, of course, and save lives doing it.m

However, in NJ at least, there are several police forces that are so racist it is ridiculous. I don’t want to mention any names, but even my own town is like this. If you are white, like I am, you will never even realize this goes on. But it does.

As for respect, I learned a lesson a long time ago that is proven true time and again. I don’t like the attitude that many cops have; kind of a better than you complex. I understand, however, that they deal with the crappiest people in the world, so I guess I would be irritable too. However, if you are nice to them, and they are dicks, you are fucked. If you are nice and they are cordial back, then its ok. They have so much more power than I do at any point that it simply isnt worth pissing them off.[/quote]

Yes it isnt good to piss off a cop. I know becaus I am one. Now, When I stop someone I am very courteous and professional. It helps that I am in the military and that is just the way we try to treat people. If I stop you for speeding and you give me no attitude then Ill give you your citation and have you be on your way. Or I may just give you a brief and release.(warning). Depending on How fast you where going and traffic conditions.

But, if I stop you for speeding and you are an prick then I start to look for other things I can find wrong. And there is no hope of getting out of the citation.

Plus when you are a prick and you are yelling at me or stuff like that then we worry about things like damn this guy is pissed. Could he have a gun or something in the car with him. We have to try to controle the situation so it doesnt escalate.

The individuals make the situation worse
by the way they act.

[quote]Goku_SS4 wrote:
Yes it isnt good to piss off a cop. I know becaus I am one. Now, When I stop someone I am very courteous and professional. It helps that I am in the military and that is just the way we try to treat people. If I stop you for speeding and you give me no attitude then Ill give you your citation and have you be on your way. Or I may just give you a brief and release.(warning). Depending on How fast you where going and traffic conditions.
[/quote]

good points Goku…

i think another interesting thing here is that people are afraid of pissing cops off, because they’ll get a ticket. well, if you piss off your server at a restaraunt, do you get good service? how 'bout if you’re on the phone with customer service and tell them that they wouldn’t have a job if it weren’t for you? the point is, being a cop is a job, and the person wearing the uniform is still a person. maybe respect for one another is just at an all-time low in this country…