[quote]haney wrote:
Then by that very admission you have advoated any nonbeliever the right to say the same about the Bible.[/quote]
Yes comparing the Bible to John Maxwell is a very good comparison.
Keep it up.
Hey…we are not so far apart.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
Then by that very admission you have advoated any nonbeliever the right to say the same about the Bible.
Yes comparing the Bible to John Maxwell is a very good comparison.
Keep it up.
[/quote]
I am not comparing them, I am saying your reasoning for what is worthwhile is based on your opinion, which is just as valid as a nonbeliever. You are making a judgement about something you have not read, so does a non believer who says I don’t believe it because it is just a bunch of stories. You are guilty of judgment with out proof.
[quote]
It was also difficult for a young Sly Stallone to get the first Rocky made. Quite a story how they tried to buy the rights but he stood fast and said if he didn’t star in it there would be no Rocky!
Good stuff!
Oh wait…he was actually an actor and a very creative guy from childhood.
Just like Rudy, you first have to participate in something in order to actually have a chance of doing it.
How about that Mel Gibson…You get the idea?[/quote]
What does that have to do with someone doing what everyone said was impossible? Or even with Rudy doing what everyone around him told him he couldn’t do?
You are changing the height of the bar. you didn’t ask how many people with out degrees were brain surgeons.
Could a janitor get a degree, and then pass the medical exam? When did I say they wouldn’t have to get trained to do it? When did I say that he could just wake up and say hey I am a brain surgeon? I thought I mentioned he would have to work for it. Would you define a degree and the medical exam as work?
Then you get the meaning it is not just what you are good at that allows you to succeed, in fact most people that are good at something don’t succeed at it. Why? Because they stopped trying.
in some ways you are correct. In other parts of this issue we are on different sides. Correct me for my perception but you seem to be limiting someones potential based on where they are now.
I think the janitor at a school while he does a much needed job most likely is wasting talent.
As far as money goes, having a lot of money is really quite easy once you understand the principles of it. Which according to the ssa 98% of all retirees don’t.
[quote]haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
Then by that very admission you have advoated any nonbeliever the right to say the same about the Bible.
Yes comparing the Bible to John Maxwell is a very good comparison.
Keep it up.
I am not comparing them, I am saying your reasoning for what is worthwhile is based on your opinion, which is just as valid as a nonbeliever. You are making a judgement about something you have not read, so does a non believer who says I don’t believe it because it is just a bunch of stories. You are guilty of judgment with out proof.[/quote]
I wish I had the time to read every nutty theory that comes down the pike…no wait…I don’t want to do that.
I read enough to know that the basic principal is flawed.
[quote]It was also difficult for a young Sly Stallone to get the first Rocky made. Quite a story how they tried to buy the rights but he stood fast and said if he didn’t star in it there would be no Rocky!
Good stuff!
Oh wait…he was actually an actor and a very creative guy from childhood.
Just like Rudy, you first have to participate in something in order to actually have a chance of doing it.
How about that Mel Gibson…You get the idea?
What does that have to do with someone doing what everyone said was impossible? Or even with Rudy doing what everyone around him told him he couldn’t do?[/quote]
You don’t know? Yikes…
[quote]No? Then try to become a brain surgeon with no college degree.
You see statistics show that most…no actually ALL brain surgeons have college degrees.
Could a janitor get a degree, and then pass the medical exam? When did I say they wouldn’t have to get trained to do it? When did I say that he could just wake up and say hey I am a brain surgeon? I thought I mentioned he would have to work for it. Would you define a degree and the medical exam as work?[/quote]
Good point I’m sure that Janitor who dropped out of High School in the 10th grad would have no problem going to College and then med school.
Sorry…what was I thinking?
Oh I agree with this. It’s just that you better make sure you pick the right battle to spend yourself in or you might be spending yourself for 50 years and not getting anywhere.
No, not JUST where they are now. But (and here’s the important part) How they got there!
For example many Janitors were not all that exited about school and so they wind up pushing a broom. Honorable profession, nothing wrong with it, and someone has to do it. BUT…most are NOT going to go to med school. I’m sure you get the idea.
It’s not being a Janitor that stops them. It’s what happened in their life that would more than likely stop them.
[quote]As far as money goes, having a lot of money is really quite easy once you understand the principles of it. Which according to the ssa 98% of all retirees don’t.
[/quote]
Well, that’s interesting. What do you think the top three principals of accumulating wealth are?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I am not comparing them, I am saying your reasoning for what is worthwhile is based on your opinion, which is just as valid as a nonbeliever. You are making a judgement about something you have not read, so does a non believer who says I don’t believe it because it is just a bunch of stories. You are guilty of judgment with out proof.
I wish I had the time to read every nutty theory that comes down the pike…no wait…I don’t want to do that.
[/quote]
I think most atheist would say the same thing about the Bible. They hold just aas much regard for the Bible as you do for that book, which I have not even quoted, just recommended.
since you know what the book says please enlighten me on it?
what is the principle of the book?
your point correlation, and point come across as ambigious to me.
No? Then try to become a brain surgeon with no college degree.
did I say he would do it? I couldhave swore I said he could do it. not the same thing.
don’t really know. I do business with several asian indian who are very wealthy, they came to this country with less than $100 bucks how do they make millions when the odds were against them?
Most people think that way. It is a good thing macy’s founder didn’t think that other wise we still might not have fixed prices on our goods. We could still do it like they do in the flea markets.
[quote]
Correct me for my perception but you seem to be limiting someones potential based on where they are now.
No, not JUST where they are now. But (and here’s the important part) How they got there!
Where they are now is important, but if they change everything tomorrow they might not be there in a few years. Potential it is there.
I am sure most of them think the same thing about them self that you think of them so in most cases you would be right.
The potential is still there.
I don’t share that information except with those that I am mentoring. I would recommend the books by Robert Kyosaki though if you can find time
As we age, the number of possible paths available to us gets smaller. Potential is one thing, but one must have the time and environment to exercise it.
[quote]haney wrote:
I think most atheist would say the same thing about the Bible. They hold just as much regard for the Bible as you do for that book, which I have not even quoted, just recommended.
since you know what the book says please enlighten me on it?
I read enough to know that the basic principal is flawed.
what is the principle of the book?[/quote]
Hold on maybe I’m wrong here. If one of the principals is (something like) anyone can become a millionaire I think it’s a crock of crap.
But, if that’s not the case maybe I’ll give it an in depth look.
Fair?
[quote]Good point I’m sure that Janitor who dropped out of High School in the 10th grad would have no problem going to College and then med school.
did I say he would do it? I couldhave swore I said he could do it. not the same thing.[/quote]
Well, anything is possible. But many things are just not logical. That Janitor is NOT becoming a brain surgeon. In fact…has that ever happened, even once?
Who said the odds were against them? What’s interesting about this country is that those coming in from ohter nations immediately realize what great opportunity there is here.
I have some friends who have done this and it’s a wonderful accomplishment. But again, this group had the guts and desire to leave their homeland to begin with. That speaks highly of their potential for success.
[quote]Then you get the meaning it is not just what you are good at that allows you to succeed, in fact most people that are good at something don’t succeed at it. Why? Because they stopped trying.
Oh I agree with this. It’s just that you better make sure you pick the right battle to spend yourself in or you might be spending yourself for 50 years and not getting anywhere.
Most people think that way. It is a good thing macy’s founder didn’t think that other wise we still might not have fixed prices on our goods. We could still do it like they do in the flea markets.[/quote]
That has nothing to do with anything! I don’t know any other way to say it.
He was “good” at retailing and he worked hard and smart he succeeded. What does that have to do with a fat woman trying to break Lance Armstrongs record?
[quote]For example many Janitors were not all that exited about school and so they wind up pushing a broom. Honorable profession, nothing wrong with it, and someone has to do it. BUT…most are NOT going to go to med school. I’m sure you get the idea.
I am sure most of them think the same thing about them self that you think of them so in most cases you would be right.[/quote]
And suddenly if they awoke one morning and thought “I can go to Harvard” they would be able to do it?
Please…
[quote]It’s not being a Janitor that stops them. It’s what happened in their life that would more than likely stop them.
The potential is still there.[/quote]
Yes potential is there…but to do what? Certainly not go to med school.
I was simply curious about what YOU think is important in reaching finanical success. But I understand and would never want you to give away any trade secrets.
[quote]nephorm wrote:
As we age, the number of possible paths available to us gets smaller. Potential is one thing, but one must have the time and environment to exercise it.[/quote]
When do you determine that you lack enough of both?
(I don’t have the exact numbers in front of me, but I will post them later, but here is an overview)
From 2001 to now we have created over half of the millionaires that we created in the entire 90’s
I beleive in the next 10 years paul zane phizer has said we will create some 16 million more.
[quote]haney wrote:
I beleive in the next 10 years paul zane phizer has said we will create some 16 million more. [/quote]
He’s just going to create them?
[quote]ZEB wrote:
Hold on maybe I’m wrong here. If one of the principals is (something like) anyone can become a millionaire I think it’s a crock of crap.
But, if that’s not the case maybe I’ll give it an in depth look.
Fair?
[/quote]
Sounds fair. He doesn’t make money the main issue.
I don’t know. I can give you an example of someone who had all the skills to do something and quit before He accomplished it, and two people who didn’t have the skills or education to accomplish something and they did.
Dr. Samuel P. Langley should of been the first to succeed at manned flight, but because he failed twice, and couldn’t hack it the wright brothers did it instead. What qualifications did two bike sales men have compared to a professor of mathematics?
most people think you need money to make money. So most would say the odds are against them.
He failed seven times, and didn’t succeed until he was in his late 50’s. You said you should pick your battles, unless you waste 50 years. he wasted more than 50, which means it does have something to do with it.
I doubt they could do it the next day, but they could spend the rest of their life trying, and I would say they had a shot. Maybe not the best shot, but better than the guy who says this is my lot in life.
Why not? Med school is nothing more than learning something. Are you telling me a janitor is incapable of learning?
I will give you the top secret to becoming wealthy. Having a why. If you don’t get it no big deal, but it is the most important principle there is.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
I beleive in the next 10 years paul zane phizer has said we will create some 16 million more.
He’s just going to create them?[/quote]
Maybe the word produce will work better.
America will produce 16 million more millionaires
I think you are confusing my point, or I have not been very clear.
It’s good to be persistent. I know that. However, you are confusing being persistent with other things that are needed to “get the job done.”
Some people simply do not have the brain power to attend and graduate from med school. law school, or be a really successful business person.
Hence, the thing that you are persistent at better be something that you are good at or can get good at. And not everyone is going to be good at everything. When this happens they spin their wheels working hard but going essentially nowhere.
Not that the experience is not a good one in many ways.
[quote]ZEB wrote:
I think you are confusing my point, or I have not been very clear.
It’s good to be persistent. I know that. However, you are confusing being persistent with other things that are needed to “get the job done.”
Some people simply do not have the brain power to attend and graduate from med school. law school, or be a really successful business person.
Hence, the thing that you are persistent at better be something that you are good at or can get good at. And not everyone is going to be good at everything. When this happens they spin their wheels working hard but going essentially nowhere.
Not that the experience is not a good one in many ways.
[/quote]
I see your point. I think it is limiting in many ways, and I believe it feeds the attitude of the poor.
Excluding Mentally handicap I believe everyone in this world given an opportunity can overcome.
I will say this 98% of americans when they reach retirement age will either be broke, or need to supplement their income because they can’t afford it.
That is from the ssa’s website.
If you are correct that people aren’t able to be financially successful unless they were programmed to then you would accept your lot in reitrement that your chances are almost none.
Zeb most people I know that are successful are really not that much smarter. In fact most millionaires didn’t even graduate college.
There is a saying is A and B students work for C students.
I just don’t accept that it is impossible for someone to do something. You are correct that an overweight untrained person would have a real struggle being able to beat Lance Armstrong. To be honest with you the percentage of Tour De France riders that break his record is a very slim number. It only takes one though.
Who is going to break it? I don’t know, but I guarantee these things that will allow them to do it is they
- have the desire
- The believe they can
- they refuse to quit until they do
- they don’t listen to the nay sayers
Here’s a secret to becoming poor:
Having a why.
If you don’t get it, no big deal. It is still the most important principle there is.
Seriously, there is a “why” for everything. Why is the “why” special just because it makes you wealthy?
[quote]haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I think you are confusing my point, or I have not been very clear.
It’s good to be persistent. I know that. However, you are confusing being persistent with other things that are needed to “get the job done.”
Some people simply do not have the brain power to attend and graduate from med school. law school, or be a really successful business person.
Hence, the thing that you are persistent at better be something that you are good at or can get good at. And not everyone is going to be good at everything. When this happens they spin their wheels working hard but going essentially nowhere.
Not that the experience is not a good one in many ways.
I see your point. I think it is limiting in many ways, and I believe it feeds the attitude of the poor.
Excluding Mentally handicap I believe everyone in this world given an opportunity can overcome.
I will say this 98% of americans when they reach retirement age will either be broke, or need to supplement their income because they can’t afford it.
That is from the ssa’s website.
If you are correct that people aren’t able to be financially successful unless they were programmed to then you would accept your lot in reitrement that your chances are almost none.
Zeb most people I know that are successful are really not that much smarter. In fact most millionaires didn’t even graduate college.
There is a saying is A and B students work for C students.
I just don’t accept that it is impossible for someone to do something. You are correct that an overweight untrained person would have a real struggle being able to beat Lance Armstrong. To be honest with you the percentage of Tour De France riders that break his record is a very slim number. It only takes one though.
Who is going to break it? I don’t know, but I guarantee these things that will allow them to do it is they
- have the desire
- The believe they can
- they refuse to quit until they do
- they don’t listen to the nay sayers
[/quote]
Just to make sure that we understand each other: Everyone can do better than they currently are.
And I agree with your top 4.
[quote]grew7 wrote:
haney wrote:I will give you the top secret to becoming wealthy. Having a why. If you don’t get it no big deal, but it is the most important principle there is.
Here’s a secret to becoming poor:
Having a why.
If you don’t get it, no big deal. It is still the most important principle there is.
Seriously, there is a “why” for everything. Why is the “why” special just because it makes you wealthy?[/quote]
because lots of people want better things. They lack the reason/desire to change and get those things.
With out it you can’t do anything.
I know I should workout, but if my why I would want to isn’t big enough I will never do it.
Think of why as a mission statement.
In case anyone asks “I want alot of money” is not a mission statement of why
[quote]ZEB wrote:
haney wrote:
ZEB wrote:
I think you are confusing my point, or I have not been very clear.
It’s good to be persistent. I know that. However, you are confusing being persistent with other things that are needed to “get the job done.”
Some people simply do not have the brain power to attend and graduate from med school. law school, or be a really successful business person.
Hence, the thing that you are persistent at better be something that you are good at or can get good at. And not everyone is going to be good at everything. When this happens they spin their wheels working hard but going essentially nowhere.
Not that the experience is not a good one in many ways.
I see your point. I think it is limiting in many ways, and I believe it feeds the attitude of the poor.
Excluding Mentally handicap I believe everyone in this world given an opportunity can overcome.
I will say this 98% of americans when they reach retirement age will either be broke, or need to supplement their income because they can’t afford it.
That is from the ssa’s website.
If you are correct that people aren’t able to be financially successful unless they were programmed to then you would accept your lot in reitrement that your chances are almost none.
Zeb most people I know that are successful are really not that much smarter. In fact most millionaires didn’t even graduate college.
There is a saying is A and B students work for C students.
I just don’t accept that it is impossible for someone to do something. You are correct that an overweight untrained person would have a real struggle being able to beat Lance Armstrong. To be honest with you the percentage of Tour De France riders that break his record is a very slim number. It only takes one though.
Who is going to break it? I don’t know, but I guarantee these things that will allow them to do it is they
- have the desire
- The believe they can
- they refuse to quit until they do
- they don’t listen to the nay sayers
Just to make sure that we understand each other: Everyone can do better than they currently are.
And I agree with your top 4.
[/quote]
Agreed
[quote]haney wrote:
grew7 wrote:
haney wrote:I will give you the top secret to becoming wealthy. Having a why. If you don’t get it no big deal, but it is the most important principle there is.
Here’s a secret to becoming poor:
Having a why.
If you don’t get it, no big deal. It is still the most important principle there is.
Seriously, there is a “why” for everything. Why is the “why” special just because it makes you wealthy?
because lots of people want better things. They lack the reason/desire to change and get those things.
With out it you can’t do anything.
I know I should workout, but if my why I would want to isn’t big enough I will never do it.
Think of why as a mission statement.
In case anyone asks “I want alot of money” is not a mission statement of why[/quote]
Isn’t knowing “how” just as important as having a “why”? You could have have enough “why” to start exercising, but it won’t really help if you just do crunches and curls because you don’t know how to exercise properly.
Couldn’t these principles apply to successfully achieving any goal, not just the goal of having more wealth?
It sounds like the “secrets” are just common sense. If you want something, take it. If you want to do something, do it. If you don’t know how, learn.
I also still don’t see how Zeb thinks a 40 year old “failure” wouldn’t be able to become a surgeon, it’s definitely possible.
[quote]grew7 wrote:
haney wrote:
grew7 wrote:
haney wrote:I will give you the top secret to becoming wealthy. Having a why. If you don’t get it no big deal, but it is the most important principle there is.
Here’s a secret to becoming poor:
Having a why.
If you don’t get it, no big deal. It is still the most important principle there is.
Seriously, there is a “why” for everything. Why is the “why” special just because it makes you wealthy?
because lots of people want better things. They lack the reason/desire to change and get those things.
With out it you can’t do anything.
I know I should workout, but if my why I would want to isn’t big enough I will never do it.
Think of why as a mission statement.
In case anyone asks “I want alot of money” is not a mission statement of why
Isn’t knowing “how” just as important as having a “why”? You could have have enough “why” to start exercising, but it won’t really help if you just do crunches and curls because you don’t know how to exercise properly.[/quote]
How is a product of why. With out a why you won’t look for a how, and you won’t stick to your how either.
Most people think the how is the important part, but really it is further down the line of importance.
I think Edison puts it nicely when asked about failing 2000(I have heard 10k, but I am going with 2) times before he invented the light bulb.
He said " I just found 2,000 ways that didn’t work."
With out a why he would have never come up with the how to invent the light bulb.
My gradfather went back to university at 40 years old. He became a train engineer… and eventually he got the job of being chief engineer for the President for a couple of years until he quit. (President of Romania, who was very dependent on his train for getting around the country and for visiting adjacent ones on business)
So don’t tell me that 40 year old hag behind the counter of 7/11 can’t get off her pasty white lard ass and make something of herself. Maybe she can’t become a brain surgeon (takes like 10 years of just learning for that) but she can damn well make something great out of herself.
And you know what? It’s a hell of alot better than working at a convenience store the rest of your life.
Interesting debate. That desire thing is quite hard to define. Which reminds me of this saying: “Whether you believe you can or you can’t, you`re right.”
Another thing is that life is wonderful. So far, I have gotten everything I have truly wished for. No, it did not get there according to the plan, sometimes it took longer than expected, sometimes the result was achieved via an indirect line, but in the end I got exactly what I asked for.
Don’t be afraid to dream. The worse that can happen is open your eyes and mind to other possibilities.
“Never think that God’s delays are God’s denials. Hold on; hold fast; hold out. Patience is genius.” – George-Louis Leclerc de Buffon