T Nation

Convincing My Dad Against Vegetarianism?


#1

Hey guys this isn't about me, but one of my dad's friends is trying to persuade him to become a Vegetarian and she brought up the fact that you can get the same nutrition without eating meat.

Anyways I personally think it is stupid to deprive your body of something that it has evolved with and eaten for thousands of years and also these animals are bread to be killed, it's not like we are depriving them of some amazing life they were going to live, they are here so we can eat them.

Anyways anything that would further my side of the argument would be great, but if this turns into a debate for both sides that would be even better!

Thanks
Nik


#2

Go listen to "Beef and Broccoli" by Immortal Technique.


#3

The only thing Slimthugger ever wrote that wasn't fucking stupid:

"Why do vegetarians feel the need to tell everyone they don't eat meat?"

(I'm paraphrasing.)

Other than that, I'm not getting in one of these debates again. It's like talking about religion, a waste of time even if you agree.


#4

This.


#5

I suppose you could get the same nutrition without food... but it wouldn't be nearly as tasty. Or easy. There are a couple of vegetarians on these boards, and they seem to be doing alright. If he wants to become a vegetarian, let him. It's not your fight.


#6

I love me some Immortal Technique


#7

As long as they're not looking to gain mass or maximize athletic performance, if they eat a plant based diet, they can definitely get all their nutrients and proteins while reducing their carbon footprint, and saving the world. I think vegans are great, but I'm way too selfish over my own goals to eat like that.

Either way, the "vegetarian foods" are gross as hell. If you go vegetarian, follow the same rules as if you aren't. So no prepackaged garbage. It will likely be like learning to cook all over again, but it won't end up being that hard, every meal will be like beans and vegetables.


#8

I just don't like the people who preach their ideals about this.

A healthy vegetarian or vegan diet is possible, but shit like tofu is really fucking unhealthy. Your body barely even knows what to do with that shit.


#9

I don't answer any thread that uses the word "anyways" twice.


#10

If she wants your dad to be a vegetarian, she needs to start banging him and cooking him food.


#11

Like all things, moderation is the healthiest, including meat. Yes, going to taco bell daily and eating 3 chili cheese burritos every day is unhealthy, but that doesnâ??t mean by default you shouldnâ??t eat meat. Do you swear off all carbs because soft drinks arenâ??t good for you?

Do you know what diet cardiologists recommend for patients after open heart surgery (at least the one that performed a triple bypass on my dad)? Steak, lots of steaks Your body heals better with meat.

A very good friend of mine in highschool lost her mother to breast cancer. It had spread to her spine and they did a surgery to remove a lot of tissue from her back and then skin grafts to cover the areas. When she was home from the hospital she went back on her vegetarian diet (including vegetarian protein supplements).

In her follow up visits her surgery wasnâ??t healing. Eventually the open wounds became infected and she had to undergo another surgery to replace the dyeing skin grafts. The doctor also found out she had put herself on a vegetarian diet and was mad and demanded she start eating meat again so she would heal properly. The second surgery healed fine.

Your body heals better with meat. The human body is built to run on an omnivore diet. Vegetarianism is what is unnatural, not the other way around.

Now, if a person has ethical and moral reservations about eating meat, thatâ??s fine, I admire someone who commits to their beliefs in daily life. BUT do not confuse vegetarianism with being healthier or more natural.


#12

Bulletin board WIN.


#13

I can tell you this from personal experience:

I was a vegan for 2 years. I did my research, I got every nutrient I needed, I certainly wasn't eating fake mac and cheese and gross prepackaged "meat analogs" or tofu, either. Nothing but properly combined quinoa, brown rice, sprouted grain bread, beans, tempeh, and nuts, plus my supplements and mass quantities of vegetables and fruit.

That said, I an an estrogen dominant endomorph, so I started gaining weight, slowly but surely. I'm sensitive to carbs, and I had to eat them all day long just to try and get in the FDA recommended amount of protein.

Well, I got fed up with that crap, and started doing research. I needed to lift weights because I have tendonitis in my knees and pronation problems when jogging, so endurance athletics just aren't in the cards for me. When I started lifting, I realized my calorie intake was far too low, and I didn't want to choke down the disgusting hemp based protein powders for the protein I needed, so I decided to start eating fish again.

Best decision I ever made. Nowadays, I eat chicken and turkey too, but I stick to organic free range meats. I still avoid dairy except for organic greek yogurt.

In my case personally, I could not stay lean on a vegan diet. Nutritionally, it's sound, but if you have any goals as far as your physique is concerned, it may not be a great choice for anyone sensitive to large amounts of carbohydrates.


#14

coming from the guy who I would assume ate his fair share of fast food.


#15

As long as he doesnâ??t go around preaching about it being healthy, there is no hypocrisy.


#16

For some reason, I just imagine grizzly bears typing this on some woodland creature forum about us. (Eh, it made me chuckle.) Anyhow...

I fairly-recently spent two months as a vegetarian/vegan.
http://tnation.tmuscle.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/confession_i_went_vegetarian

It's not as "easy" as an omnivorous diet (requires more attention and planning), but especially for someone who doesn't exercise (not sure if your dad does or not), there's no reason for him not to try it out if it interests him.

This is, for the most part, correct. Depending on the "level" of vegetarianism (lacto-ovo, ovo, lacto, vegan), the macronutrients (protein, carbs, and fat) and micronutrients (vitamins and minerals) can be definitely be had without meat.

It gets a bit more complicated when weight training is involved, but things like vegetarian-specific multi-vitamins and low-carb protein powders (pea, hemp, or rice) make it easier.

Your logic is flawed because there's more to it than that. Just because you can eat something doesn't always mean you should. Your body can digest paper without ill effect. That doesn't mean you should eat it, like somebody with the condition pica would do.

Also, the last half of your sentence is the absolute crux of why many people adopt a vegetarian lifestyle - moral or ethical issues. That's way complicated and varies from person to person, but as a hint, step one of a reasonable discussion would be for you to not call it "stupid." Figure out another way to get your point across if you want to have a legit impact with your dad and this person.


#17

Can I ask why you initially decided to go vegan? Moral/ethical reasons? Food allergies? Were you just curious about going meatless?

A few brands make decent-tasting vegan proteins, usually from rice, pea, or hemp. Just throwing this out there. But this is one advantage of a lacto-ovo, lacto, or ovo-vegetarian plan. More diverse food choices and more variety of protein sources.

I thoroughly disagree. It's difficult, but as I explained when I blogged about my experiment, guys like Joe DeMarco, Alex Dargatz, Jason Ferruggia, and Mike Mahler are strict vegans who gain size and strength, and drop fat. It takes planning, but it can and has been done.


#18

Well, Freud was right.

(Movie reference... anyone?)


#19

I'm a vegetarian, and health is like the last concern on my list of reasons. It may be a nice plus but it's not the reason. I do it for moral reasons, that I don't feel like discussing right now. That's why anyone that does it because it's trendy or because it's "healthy" is going to fail after a year or two. Also, before I stopped eating meat (about 3 years ago), I never even liked. I ate it because it was there or because I thought I was supposed to, but I didn't like the taste, the texture, etc. I eat food because it's good and I don't overthink about everything I eat. Eating for health only, in my opinion, is like having sex for reproduction only.


#20

It takes planning, but only initially. Like I said, I don't overthink about everything I eat. I also don't have to eat stuff that tastes like cardboard just because I'm a vegetarian. After a month or two one should have a nice selection of vegetarian foods to eat. Just like you don't need to plan if this week you're goin to eat your chicken breasts baked or cooked, I don't need to sit down with a calculator and plan how I'm going to prepare my tempeh.