T Nation

Converting from Conventional to Sumo

Recently I am having trouble keeping my ass/hips down in the start of the conventional deadlift causing a back to round.

Since I squat with a wide stance I was thinking I might feel more comfortable pulling sumo.

I was wondering if i made this switch should i expect to pull the same numbers as i currently do conventional?

Any help on this will be appreciated

[quote]twistacannon15 wrote:
Recently I am having trouble keeping my ass/hips down in the start of the conventional deadlift causing a back to round.

Since I squat with a wide stance I was thinking I might feel more comfortable pulling sumo.

I was wondering if i made this switch should i expect to pull the same numbers as i currently do conventional?

Any help on this will be appreciated[/quote]

i pull both ways and each style has it’s strengths and weaknesses for me. I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts. The reason for this is that you are using different muscle groups as your primary lifters.

I would experiment with sumo and see where you are. sumo is much more of a technical lift than conventional.

good luck.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts. [/quote]

Thanks for posting this Meat. I’ve recently switched to sumo and it has helped my lifts, but for the first time I’ve had issues with lockouts. I was thinking it was just the higher weight, but it’s most likely a combination of things.

[quote]Ruggerlife wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts.

Thanks for posting this Meat. I’ve recently switched to sumo and it has helped my lifts, but for the first time I’ve had issues with lockouts. I was thinking it was just the higher weight, but it’s most likely a combination of things.

[/quote]

no problem.

these are common problems with these particular lifts. It all has to do with body position. each lift has it’s mechanical advantages and disadvantages.

My deadlift max is higher when I pull sumo. I only dead 385 conventional and 400 sumo

My deadlift max is higher when I pull sumo. I only dead 385 conventional and 400 sumo

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
twistacannon15 wrote:
Recently I am having trouble keeping my ass/hips down in the start of the conventional deadlift causing a back to round.

Since I squat with a wide stance I was thinking I might feel more comfortable pulling sumo.

I was wondering if i made this switch should i expect to pull the same numbers as i currently do conventional?

Any help on this will be appreciated

i pull both ways and each style has it’s strengths and weaknesses for me. I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts. The reason for this is that you are using different muscle groups as your primary lifters.

I would experiment with sumo and see where you are. sumo is much more of a technical lift than conventional.

good luck.
[/quote]

Do you find that working on one improves the other. Like could you use training on one to get past a plateau on the other?

[quote]DoubleDuce wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
twistacannon15 wrote:
Recently I am having trouble keeping my ass/hips down in the start of the conventional deadlift causing a back to round.

Since I squat with a wide stance I was thinking I might feel more comfortable pulling sumo.

I was wondering if i made this switch should i expect to pull the same numbers as i currently do conventional?

Any help on this will be appreciated

i pull both ways and each style has it’s strengths and weaknesses for me. I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts. The reason for this is that you are using different muscle groups as your primary lifters.

I would experiment with sumo and see where you are. sumo is much more of a technical lift than conventional.

good luck.

Do you find that working on one improves the other. Like could you use training on one to get past a plateau on the other?[/quote]

i’ve never found that they carryover to one another. I do find that the sumo improves my squat and vice versa. zercher’s off of pins and squatting to and off of pins improve my sumo.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
twistacannon15 wrote:
Recently I am having trouble keeping my ass/hips down in the start of the conventional deadlift causing a back to round.

Since I squat with a wide stance I was thinking I might feel more comfortable pulling sumo.

I was wondering if i made this switch should i expect to pull the same numbers as i currently do conventional?

Any help on this will be appreciated

i pull both ways and each style has it’s strengths and weaknesses for me. I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts. The reason for this is that you are using different muscle groups as your primary lifters.

I would experiment with sumo and see where you are. sumo is much more of a technical lift than conventional.

good luck.

Do you find that working on one improves the other. Like could you use training on one to get past a plateau on the other?

i’ve never found that they carryover to one another. I do find that the sumo improves my squat and vice versa. zercher’s off of pins and squatting to and off of pins improve my sumo.
[/quote]

Do you pull more with Sumo? I do, but like you said have more trouble with lockout. I also just bought a used trap bar and am planning on throwing that into the mix.

[quote]Testy1 wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
twistacannon15 wrote:
Recently I am having trouble keeping my ass/hips down in the start of the conventional deadlift causing a back to round.

Since I squat with a wide stance I was thinking I might feel more comfortable pulling sumo.

I was wondering if i made this switch should i expect to pull the same numbers as i currently do conventional?

Any help on this will be appreciated

i pull both ways and each style has it’s strengths and weaknesses for me. I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts. The reason for this is that you are using different muscle groups as your primary lifters.

I would experiment with sumo and see where you are. sumo is much more of a technical lift than conventional.

good luck.

Do you find that working on one improves the other. Like could you use training on one to get past a plateau on the other?

i’ve never found that they carryover to one another. I do find that the sumo improves my squat and vice versa. zercher’s off of pins and squatting to and off of pins improve my sumo.

Do you pull more with Sumo? I do, but like you said have more trouble with lockout. I also just bought a used trap bar and am planning on throwing that into the mix.
[/quote]

i do pull more sumo as long as i’m fast off the floor. when i get slow the weight drops.

trap bar seems to carry over to squats but not so much for sumo or conventional deads.

i would throw trap bar deads in as a squat variation.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Testy1 wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
DoubleDuce wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
twistacannon15 wrote:

i would throw trap bar deads in as a squat variation.
[/quote]

Thanks for that. Will work in nicely.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts.

Thanks for posting this Meat. I’ve recently switched to sumo and it has helped my lifts, but for the first time I’ve had issues with lockouts. I was thinking it was just the higher weight, but it’s most likely a combination of things.

no problem.

these are common problems with these particular lifts. It all has to do with body position. each lift has it’s mechanical advantages and disadvantages.

[/quote]

I actually found the opposite to hold true for me…mind you I haven’t done a max attempt since I switched to sumo.

For me, breaking it off the floor takes the most effort. Once it’s off the floor, it seems like I’m immediately locked out. Could it have to do with male vs. female builds and muscle dominance?

It took me a few sessions to get used to the new feeling but I feel much stronger now than when I was pulling conventionally. We’ll see how that holds at my next meet…

[quote]Court wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
Ruggerlife wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:
I find that my lockout is stronger in the conventional but breaking it off the floor is more difficult. When i sumo pull i find that i can break it off the floor but then have trouble with lockout on max attempts.

Thanks for posting this Meat. I’ve recently switched to sumo and it has helped my lifts, but for the first time I’ve had issues with lockouts. I was thinking it was just the higher weight, but it’s most likely a combination of things.

no problem.

these are common problems with these particular lifts. It all has to do with body position. each lift has it’s mechanical advantages and disadvantages.

I actually found the opposite to hold true for me…mind you I haven’t done a max attempt since I switched to sumo.

For me, breaking it off the floor takes the most effort. Once it’s off the floor, it seems like I’m immediately locked out. Could it have to do with male vs. female builds and muscle dominance?

It took me a few sessions to get used to the new feeling but I feel much stronger now than when I was pulling conventionally. We’ll see how that holds at my next meet…[/quote]

that could easily be the case. you may have weak hips and quads but a stronger lower back. you may also be raising the hips too soon and putting the weight out in front of you. the sumo deadlift is pretty technical. especially intiating the lift. you really have to force the knees out and at the perfect time force your hips forward and pull the bar back. it takes very good timing.

i would suggest that you work some speed deads, deficit sumo pulls, wide stance leg press and wide stance low box squats paused on the box into your training.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:

i pull both ways
[/quote]

The things you learn on the internet :wink:

[quote]Hanley wrote:
maraudermeat wrote:

i pull both ways

The things you learn on the internet :wink:
[/quote]

as long as i don’t make eye contact it’s all good.

[quote]twistacannon15 wrote:
Recently I am having trouble keeping my ass/hips down in the start of the conventional deadlift causing a back to round.

Since I squat with a wide stance I was thinking I might feel more comfortable pulling sumo.

I was wondering if i made this switch should i expect to pull the same numbers as i currently do conventional?

Any help on this will be appreciated[/quote]

At first your Sumo numbers probabley won’t be the same. Because for me when I switched to Sumo I didn’t have the flexibility in the hips or the strength in the glutes,hip flexors & groin muscles. I did a lot of stretching for my inner legs and practicing sumo’s. Also don’t start with your feet too wide. Go as wide as you can comfortabley. Then as you get stronger in the lift you can move your feet out closer to the plates till you find your strongest position.

[quote]maraudermeat wrote:
Court wrote:
I actually found the opposite to hold true for me…mind you I haven’t done a max attempt since I switched to sumo.

For me, breaking it off the floor takes the most effort. Once it’s off the floor, it seems like I’m immediately locked out. Could it have to do with male vs. female builds and muscle dominance?

It took me a few sessions to get used to the new feeling but I feel much stronger now than when I was pulling conventionally. We’ll see how that holds at my next meet…

that could easily be the case. you may have weak hips and quads but a stronger lower back. you may also be raising the hips too soon and putting the weight out in front of you. the sumo deadlift is pretty technical. especially intiating the lift. you really have to force the knees out and at the perfect time force your hips forward and pull the bar back. it takes very good timing.

i would suggest that you work some speed deads, deficit sumo pulls, wide stance leg press and wide stance low box squats paused on the box into your training.

[/quote]

Thanks for the response - I kinda forgot about this thread. I’ve started incorporating some of those exercises into my routine, but will add in the wide stance low box squats as well.

I do have weak hips, but am very quad dominant and my low back strength is mediocre. I had some help from a nearby club (including some people that have lifted at Worlds) when I made my switch to help with form so I’m confident it doesn’t suck too much.

Always room for improvement though :slight_smile: I’ll be pulling sumo at my meet in June and will be training with the club more frequently once they’re all back from Nationals.

I just started a German volume routine and decided to use the opportunity to try Sumo again…10 sets of 10 reps feels like it’s a great way to learn proper form.

Something important to remember when making the switch to sumo, never take your stance any wider than you can get your knees out. Wider is not always better…especially if it places you in a disadvantaged position.