I made a video just for you guys. This is only 225, but the point is to show my current setup and start position. Like I said, I have made some minor adjustments since that video from last year but it’s fundamentally the same. I just didn’t have anything recent and still have no work sets recorded from the front, there was no live stream at my last meet and the only video is a shaky cellphone video from too far away.
The first set is my regular setup, I even paused one rep just for FlatsFarmer. I tried turning my feet out a bit more and opening my hips more for the second set, as you can see my shins aren’t vertical and it would most likely result in my hips rising too much before the bar leaves the floor if there was more weight on the bar. I think the only way I could make that work is if I moved my stance out more, but I’m weaker with a wider stance.
And before anyone asks, yes, I deadlift inside my power rack. I train in a small room in my basement, I could turn the bar sideways but this is more convenient and it doesn’t limit my stance width.
A question for @jbackos:
What is wrong with a “wide stance conventional”? I’m not trying to justify shitty technique, but if you can’t pull conventional without rounding your back and you are weak with a wide stance sumo, is it really a bad thing? Is there anyone who pulls big weights with a wide stance conventional?
I think it has something to do with training a similar movement pattern that relies on more lower back and hamstrings, I don’t think I was effectively using my glutes in the past. Sumo rack pulls helped with that, but they only got me so far.
Your hips are really high on that 520. I wouldn’t even call that sumo imo, but I don’t know shit really. Your 225 looked more sumo to me, but your set up looked really shaky and not that tight.
I get that you’re weaker wider stance, but if you can find it more comfortable, you’ll bridge the gap in no time. There’s nothing wrong with a wider conventional, and it works for a lot of people, but that 520, to me at least, looked like a failed sumo attempt that turned into a wide stance conventional RDL.
That’s why I was comparing my technique to Dave Ricks, his looks quite similar. It’s not that I’m aiming for that type of technique, I just can’t seem to do any better. If he can pull over 700 then there’s hope for me, I don’t realistically expect to become a great deadlifter but I should be able to manage something decent. Check this one out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Er4A_ZS9dmQ
To be honest I wasn’t putting a whole lot of effort into getting tight, I just wanted to demonstrate exactly how I set up at the moment, hip and knee position in particular. If I actually got tight the bar would leave the floor before I actually started pulling with that weight. It was done with no warmup, not that I needed one. I can post something next week.
You move like you move. You lift like you lift. You’ll just rack pull like you deadlift.
I’m suggesting you do a new lift. A special move, just for your Sumo Deadlift start position. Similar to one of those fruity Glute thrusts that people do down on the floor. Only standing up with a barbell in your hands. Not a rack pull. Not a partial deadlift. A halfway standing wide footed pause bar hump. You want to develop your halfway standing wide stance bar hump.
Instead of conventional to build your Sumo, I’m suggesting you use the muscles of Sumo, in the stance of the sumo, but doing a movement that is not a deadlift.
If you don’t know where to put your hips to get your back flat, start high, get a flat back, then figure out where to put your hips. If you don’t get the glutes engaged properly from the floor to get your hips close, start high and figure out how to do it.
What exactly are you talking about, the same sort of block pulls that Duffin has the guy doing in the video above?
This reminded me of an old article by Greg Nuckols on Bret Contreras’ site, “Glute Training is Good for Powerlifters”. He said he used sumo block pulls to build his glutes and the result was a couple of world records. He didn’t pull from the floor at all, but he also pulls conventional and has said that he can’t pull conventional very often because it has caused several back injuries for him.
Here’s a couple videos from a little over a month ago, 515x1 and 430x1. My hips are slightly lower, it seems like my technique has gotten worse (more hamstring/lower back dominant and less glutes) in the last month. Could it be a result of doing conventional rack pulls?
First clip much better. Now sit back and scrape the shins. The bar is hanging out in front. You’re almost there.
Second clip is a sumo stiff leg, Not good.
I made a video just for you guys. This is only 225, but the point is to show my current setup and start position. Like I said, I have made some minor adjustments since that video from last year but it’s fundamentally the same. I just didn’t have anything recent and still have no work sets recorded from the front, there was no live stream at my last meet and the only video is a shaky cellphone video from too far away.
The first set is my regular setup, I even paused one rep just for FlatsFarmer. I tried turning my feet out a bit more and opening my hips more for the second set, as you can see my shins aren’t vertical and it would most likely result in my hips rising too much before the bar leaves the floor if there was more weight on the bar. I think the only way I could make that work is if I moved my stance out more, but I’m weaker with a wider stance.
And before anyone asks, yes, I deadlift inside my power rack. I train in a small room in my basement, I could turn the bar sideways but this is more convenient and it doesn’t limit my stance width.
Here’s 520x1 from a couple weeks ago, recorded from behind and to the side. It seems to me that my hips might be a bit too high.
I gave it some thought after analyzing a bunch of videos, on lighter sets like the 430x1 above I don’t get as stiff-legged and it actually looks half decent. I think that what is happening on heavier sets is that my glutes basically fail before the bar even starts moving and my hamstrings take over, turning it into a near SLDL. Greg Nuckols has an old article where he says he used block pulls to build up his glutes and made a lot of progress which resulted in a world record squat and total. Maybe I should do rack pulls (no blocks available, but I have a stiff bar) for assistance, really focusing on driving with the glutes. I was thinking to start just below the knees and work my way down as time goes by, other than that I will pull singles with 70-80% or so. What do you think? Is there any more direct way to train glutes other than hip thrusts? Like Nuckols, I would have a hard time rolling the bar over my legs. I found that out a while back after failing a floor press with 300-something pounds, not a fun time.
You don’t need that ghr thing at all. Anything that’ll anchor your ankles. Even a heavy piece of furniture. It’s just a back raise, but with bent knees. It’s very easy to load just like a regular hyperextension.
Hi rep deficits and block pulls both. Many ways to mix them up. Either way i would do reps, reps, and more reps. if you do rack pulld use the bottom pin or it becomes a leg press.
chris_ottawa
October 5 |
I gave it some thought after analyzing a bunch of videos, on lighter sets like the 430x1 above I don’t get as stiff-legged and it actually looks half decent. I think that what is happening on heavier sets is that my glutes basically fail before the bar even starts moving and my hamstrings take over, turning it into a near SLDL. Greg Nuckols has an old article where he says he used block pulls to build up his glutes and made a lot of progress which resulted in a world record squat and total. Maybe I should do rack pulls (no blocks available, but I have a stiff bar) for assistance, really focusing on driving with the glutes. I was thinking to start just below the knees and work my way down as time goes by, other than that I will pull singles with 70-80% or so. What do you think? Is there any more direct way to train glutes other than hip thrusts? Like Nuckols, I would have a hard time rolling the bar over my legs. I found that out a while back after failing a floor press with 300-something pounds, not a fun time.
Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.
In Reply To
jbackos
October 4 |
First clip much better. Now sit back and scrape the shins. The bar is hanging out in front. You’re almost there. Second clip is a sumo stiff leg, Not good. chris_ottawa October 4 | @jbackos@oldbeancam@FlatsFarmer I made a video just for you guys. This is only 225, but the point is to sho…
Visit Topic or reply to this email to respond.
One of the best lifters of the 70’s was Byron Benoit, 123 lb Weight Class.
Benoit’s Deadlift was 520. He shook from the start of the Deadlift all the way up.
Benoit Deadlift Training revolved around Hinge Back Raises with High Repetition, 15 Reps per set.
Benoit’s Squat was 440 lbs at his 123 body weight.
{quote]I only have that issue when I don’t do GMs or RDLs for a while, they seem to be the cure. [/quote}
Sound like the GMs and RDL should be a staple of your program.
McLaughlin’s Research
McLaughlin’s “Bench Press More, Now” noted the first 1/3 of the Bench Press is where the greatest resistance is encounter, which support empirical data.
The same applies especially to the Sumo Deadlift and Squat as well; "The Ascending Strength Curve.
[quote]…so I tried what Josh Bryant said he did with Ogden Myklebust which is loading the bar with well over your max (I was using something like 685) and pulling as hard as possible for 5 seconds, then resting a couple minutes and doing a speed rep with a lighter weight. It’s hard to say if they have paid off, but they are fatiguing as hell. I was planning to go 4 weeks between deloads but I had to deload early because I was dying, and the iso DLs seem to have been the main cause. I will see how things look next week.
[/quote]
Isometrics
This is an excellent method for increasing Limit Strength. However, it is rarely employed by most lifters for a variety of reasons.
Isometrics allows you to produce maximal effort at specific angles; enabling you to engage all of the muscle fiber.
Post-Activation Potentiation Training
This is essentially “Super Setting” a Limit Strength Movement with a Power and/or Speed Exercise. Research shows when a Limit Strength Movement precedes a Power and/or Speed Exercise, greater force production is produced
PAP Training has been the foundation of my training for years. It is an effective method.
With that said, the Limit Strength Movement need to be demanding to produce greater force production in the Power/Speed Exercise that follows.
However, if the Limit Strength Movement is too heavy it dampens the Power/Speed Movement that follows.
Functional Isometrics
This type of Isometric Training is another effective method.
I could see box squats potentially helping, but that would involve learning a whole new movement as well so it would be some time before I start to see the results. I hear kneeling squats are hard on the knees, probably part of the reason they aren’t too popular. You can also do them with a band around your waist pulling you back and put less weight on the bar, resulting in less pressure on the knees. Those actually sound like a good option, but I don’t see how they will help more than rack pulls.
Do you think that deficits might mess up my starting position? Like I said, it seems that my problem is that I’m not driving with my glutes off the floor and shifting the weight to my hamstrings and lower back, deficit pulls will have me starting with a more horizontal back angle which is exactly what I want to avoid. I have done sumo deficit deadlifts before, for higher reps (6-8) but only a couple work sets. I’m not sure if they really did anything for me though.
I do rack pulls from time to time, but with the plates about 4 inches off the floor. Those seemed to help with getting my glutes working more (I have known that I have glute issues for a while) but what Nuckols said is that starting higher takes out the quads and makes the lift all hip extension. You don’t like that idea or what?
