I’ve been lurking for a while but - between that and searching - haven’t seen answers to these specific questions.
I’ve been on TRT for about 2.5 years. After spending the last several months at 220mg/weekly, I decided to add in some low dose deca after researching the joint support benefits and being intrigued by the potential athletic gains. I started last week at 100mg weekly. I was told that, at this dosage, I could stay on deca indefinitely… but in all the reading I have done on here and elsewhere, I haven’t seen many people that don’t cycle off. Is this solid advice or do I need to cycle off even at 100mg weekly? Follow-on question: What would be the maximum safe weekly dosage for indefinite use?
I’m also interested in adding anavar eventually. Do I need to cycle off deca to safely/responsibly do so? If yes, how long should I be off deca before starting anavar? I believe the long-ester deca (I’m not using NPP) stays in the system quite a while.
My final question relates to a nuance of injecting multiple oil-based substances. I’m fairly comfortable with IM injections, but using multiple substances is new to me. For my first injection, I pulled my deca into a syringe, pulled enough air for my test dose, injected the air into the test vial, then pulled the test into the syringe. Is this the proper protocol? Past stickies indicate yes, but they don’t mention whether swapping the draw needle is necessary to avoid contamination. I greatly prefer a single IM injection versus two in a day, but I’m also unclear if the risk of a slight contamination of my test with deca or vice versa is something I need to be concerned about enough to justify doing two separate shots.
Disclaimer: the only AAS that I am talking about were pharmaceutical grade.
In 1977 I had good results taking only 100mg/wk of Organon Deca and 20mg/day Dianabol. It led to a most productive bodybuilding year. And a very noticeable improvement where I won two contests and most muscular in both, though they were rather lower level contests.
My last blood test (pre-deca) had my total test “>1500”, which I guess doesn’t reveal much without knowing how high over 1500. My doctor said he didn’t have an issue with that as long as the rest of my blood work looked good. I recently changed to a different clinic that still has access to HCG and they did not object to me staying at 220mg based on that blood work. Thoughts?
They have me doing .5mL nandrolone w/ .55mL test on one day and then test alone 3.5 days later. Would you break it up even more than that?
Similar to what you stated, I had planned on cycling onto Anavar for 12 weeks and then cycling back off. The deca was the variable (whether to stay on or go off).
I wouldn’t. Its a PED that is not part of HRT. It can induce ED, cardiac remodeling, and cause mental side effects. If all that still sounds up your alley, go ahead and Russian Roulet the shit outta life. I personally wouldn’t run it more than 12-16 weeks at a time maybe 1-2 times a year. Still a risk but less so. You can typically find 100-200mg/wk scripts at these clinics that peddle legal roids.
Not really. Anavar will tank your lipids regardless and is bad for liver. Stacking it with deca is a personal choice. This SHOULD NOT be run for long periods of time.
@hankthetank89@mnben87 yes, exactly this… primarily, I’m interested in the enhanced collagen synthesis and joint lubrication that deca is supposed to provide… but definitely I would also welcome strength and muscularity gains as well.
With respect to the collagen synthesis, I’m recovering from a serious knee injury (fully torn quad tendon, two fully torn ligaments, and a third partially torn ligament), so I’m hoping deca helps speed that recovery along. I’m also using BPC-157 and TB-500 at the injury site, for what it’s worth.
In general, I’m 40 years old and very active (jujitsu, basketball, weightlifting), so I love the idea of better joint lubrication as well. Barring the freak injury, I’ve remained very healthy, but I do have a tendency toward achy shoulders, knees, and elbows.
I have yet to see a member here look as good as @RT_Nomad. But then again, this seems to be a forum of more casual / risk adverse users versus competitors. Another forum I am on there are guys that more focus on stage and they look phenomenal. They also use a lot of drugs in scary dosages way more than @RT_Nomad ever confessed to using.
This is me on test and AI only (prior to deca). I’m 6’3" and fluctuate between 215 and 225; 40 years old.
I definitely don’t want to shave years off my life for “gains”, but I would like to see faster injury recovery and faster strength gains. Doing as much self-education as I could, I felt like low dose deca and anavar were relatively low risk with good upside… but I’m certainly open to being corrected or being guided to superior options. For the record, everything I’m using right now is prescribed through a longevity clinic (they have deca, anavar, and HGH).
@Gifted looked pretty damn good haha. Won an open class Mr. O title (Brandon Curry is @Gifted).
Deca mostly masks joint pain. Be careful with this. You have the potential to cause more damage without noticing it because the joint pain is covered up.
Deca mostly does not help joint health. It just pads the joints a bit while on it.
FWIW, I would not use it long term even at low dosages. I personally think your Test dose is too high (I could see it for a few years where I really want to be peak, but I couldn’t see myself on that dose at 70). I would be questioning if it was too much (220 Test + 100 Deca) if I ran that long term.
I think Deca is overused for to address joint pain. Elbow and Knee sleeves might work just as well, and should be tried first for example.
Is the supposed increase in collagen synthesis a falsehood? That was where I thought it could really be a benefit.
I’m limited to strictly PT-assigned movements for my lower body right now. Noted on the potential masking of symptoms.
I’ve been using 7mm knee sleeves and 5mm elbow sleeves for several years; they do help keep things warm and compressed, but I still tend to get aches and/or tendinitis. I’m a stickler for form, but I think years of contact sports and weightlifting have taken a toll… or perhaps my joints just have a tendency to be dried out (that’s a term that’s new to me, but one that I’ve seen related to aromasin usage). I supplement with collagen and a few different joint support supplements (typical glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM/boron/hyaluronic acid stuff); I don’t really notice much of a difference with or without, for what it’s worth.
I don’t think it is false. I guess I was a little hasty when I said it won’t improve your joints. It will a little, but most of the relief from Nandralone comes from water retention padding the joint. I am guessing if we were to quantify how much of the joint pain relief comes from repairing the joint through collagen synthesis vs padding the joint, the latter is a much larger factor.
I would guess more people do damage to their joints while on Deca than improve them (although this is indirectly, by means of getting strong to quickly).
I say that the padding of the joint being most of the joint pain reduction is backed up by anecdotal evidence (but a lot of it). Many many users report that when getting off of Deca that the joint pain returns. If the collagen synthesis was doing a significant job at repairing the joints, I would think they wouldn’t return to being painful after the Deca is ceased.
That all makes sense that, due to rapid muscle growth, people would outpace their tendon/ligament growth and ultimately injure themselves as a result. I’d like to think I’m fairly conservative in my advanced years.
Are there any AAS you would recommend in lieu of deca/anavar for superior injury recovery and/or faster strength gains with fewer or more minor side effects? I’ve seen a ton of variance in opinions on deca ranging from “I’ll never take it again” to “I’ve experienced zero sides and I’ll never stop using it.”
From my experience Deca is a nice injectable anabolic, but I never used more than 200mg/wk. but I always added an oral anabolic. I usually changed among Dianabol, Winstrol, and Anavar. I always thought Anavar was least effective for size and strength. Occasionally I would run 3 or 4 weeks of Anadrol (50mg/day) and finish off the 8 to 12 week cycle with one of the above three orals.
All these were done accompanied with 200mg/wk with testosterone cypionate (starting in 1978). TRT was unknown in those days. We all got off cycle for a period of time.
If I was going to go long term, I’d add in HGH. I’d check blood work first, because if I had good values for GH and IGF-1, then I’d ditch the idea. If using long term with an AAS, I’d consider primo if you have access to it. I think that would be safer long term at low dose compared to deca.
I wouldn’t pay pharma prices for HGH though. I’d only do it if I could get it for $2/iu or lower.
Other than that, I’ve thought adding an oral in here or there in top of TRT. Maybe 6 weeks on 12 weeks off for my needs (get close to maximizing my genetic potential at my TRT dose).