T Nation

Continue or Recovery


#1

I was planning on starting my new cycle consisting of:

Week: 1-12: Test E 250mg
Week: 4-12: Tren Ace 100mg EOD
Week: 8-12: Var 100mg ED
Week: 2-12: adex. 5mg eod
Week: 2-12: hCG 250iU 3x

My previous cycle ended 4 months ago consisting of Sust and Deca. with adex and a proper PCT of Nolva/Clomid (didn’t use hCG during or after cycle). I went to go check my levels 4 weeks ago (which I never do because I barely experience any sides.)
Results:
Total Test 96 L 250ng-827ng/dL :open_mouth:

I mean I’ve heard of a Deca shutdown but GOD DAMN.

Question here is that I probably fucked up by not using hCG with the Deca cycle, but if I start this cycle and I use hCG, will it do a restart on my natty test production while on cycle? Clarifying that I’m not using monster doses.

Or should I use the old protocol of restarting by going with hCG and Clomid? and then starting the next cycle?

Notes: My libido is perfectly fine, I could get it hard when I need to, my two boys are the same size and I’m still hitting the same weights as before.


5'7" 174lbs 24 Year Old 6-7 Years of Training
#2

Deca’s a bitch, my friend.

Pretty impressive that you haven’t had sides from test that low.

I have to note that if you used Nolva AND clomid, you didn’t do a good PCT. That doesn’t work nearly as well as picking one or the other. Bro science tells you that they should work together, but actual science says otherwise. Just for future reference. Also, you likely used doses that were too high. Do some more reading on PCT on this site before your next cycle.

Ok, so your actual question: no. That won’t work. You will not naturally produce testosterone as long as you are using steroids. Period. No way to avoid this. Even at low doses. (and tren ace at 100mg EOD is arguably not a low dose anyway, lol).

If it were me, and you REALLY don’t want to go the blast/cruise route, I would do what you can to increase your testosterone before starting a new cycle. I’d actually see a doctor, but that’s your call.

Only use clomid or hcg though. Not both. That will be counterproductive as well. I’d go with the clomid for 4-6 weeks, and see how you respond. I’ve seen a few folks who have responded well to that. Also, get a full bloodwork panel done if possible, including prolactin and E2.


#3

Thanks for your help flipcollar,

I didn’t post this but my previous cycle consisted of Sust 500mg/Week and Deca 450mg/ Week for 10 Weeks.
That is def the culprit of the shutdown.
What’s the best way of using the old protocol of hCG to recover my natty test production to start a new cycle? If you know please let me know what do you suggest. I’ve had people telling me to go with 5000iu split in two weeks and then clomid for 4 weeks at low doses. Or as you’re telling me use just clomid or hCG, whats the optimal dose for the clomid only recovery, without hCG?


#4

If you just use clomid, don’t use more than 50mg per day, every day.

I have a friend who’s using HCG right now as a way to recover his HTPA. He used clomid first, and it helped his T levels quite a bit, but he’s trying to improve them even more with HCG now. I’ll ask him how he’s dosing it. I just don’t remember proper dosing. Maybe someone else will chime in.


#6

If you get those doses let me know ASAP as well as his height and weight.
Thanks!


#7

Although you wouldn’t normally use hCG and SERMs together, it is used as a fairly aggressive fertility protocol by doctors sometimes. Seems it also works as a super PCT for when your HPTA is especially fucked.

-clomid 50mg a day
-hCG 500iu 3x a week

If you can get hMG instead of hCG it really would be much better. Shit ain’t cheap though and it’s quite hard to find in my experience.

Did you get bloodwork before you ever took steroids? How do you know you just didn’t always have shitty T numbers? A lot of people do without realising, but if it’s not causing dysfunction (such as libido problems, which you don’t seem to have) then it’s not an issue. Guys obsess over their T number and it’s pretty dumb. Your hormones are way more complicated than just having the highest T number you can.


#8

I’ve never checked my bloodwork before and as I mentioned before my two boys are in normal size and I still manage to get it hard. Maybe I did have shitty T levels, but I’d always like to improve my natural T production and not be shut down the rest of my life, for example I’d like to have kids too.
If I don’t have the hCG on hand right now but I do have the Clomid would you suggest me to go with the 50mg a day first, and also how long is a really long time as you mentioned before? 6 weeks? 8 weeks?


#9

he’s like 6’0 tall, maybe 6’1, and 220ish lbs. He’s doing 400mg every other day. So it comes out to about 1400 per week.


#10

well if you’re not showing any symptoms of dysfunction, then you might not even need anything.


#11

Thanks! I dont think I need hCG because I don’t have any signs of atrophy but I’d like to know more about the Clomid. Over 50mg is not necessary, but the period of the cycle is what I’m interested in


#12

Not even a low dose of Clomid for a couple weeks just to try to get those levels back to the “normal” range, like you said before men are always alarming about their T numbers lol


#13

I would say as long as it continues to work. Probably around 6 weeks.


#14

it’s your call, man. I dunno if medicating yourself when you’re not showing any symptoms or dysfunction is a good idea, but it’s not like clomid’ll kill you so I suppose you could.


#15

Don’t go over 50mg of clomid. How much weight have you lost since you got off cycle?


#16

I lost about 7-10 lbs the most. Why?


#17

Just curious.With such low levels of test I would expect that you would have lost more weight.


#18

As I mentioned before, I’ve never done a bloodwork test for TT before. Maybe I’ve always had shitty natural T levels, but there’s always room for improvement. That’s why I’d like to increase my natural TT, before jumping on another cycle.


#19

50 mg clomid+2000ius hcg helped me recover a couple of times. I’ve tried 40mg nolva+5000ius and it worked as well. Everyone is different, some people recover faster, some had low test levels from the beginning. That being said after many successful recoveries my test levels tanked and I got on trt.


#20

Did they tank because you kept using AAS?


#21

Pretty much. As I grew older recovery kept getting more and more difficult so last time my levels were really low and I decided to jump on trt. If you cant raise your levels with clomid and hcg trt is always a good option