Contemplation

One more thing about your statement, Mage. You make the statement that the deaths “are not as bad as one might think”… I think that comment is just plain idiotic. Try explaining your excellent logic to a grieving family who won’t have their son home for Christmas this year because he died in a senseless and unnecessary war? ONE SINGLE AMERICAN DEATH that was not absolutely necessary to defend us against an imminent threat is too many, and it is blood on Bush’s hands! Why don’t you step up and offer yourself as Bush’s cannon fodder since you don’t seem to think that the death rate isn’t so bad over there? I have family over there, and I don’t appreciate your “comforting” statement in any way, shape or form.

Hey Roy.

First of all, I cannot say I really have any idols. I find the idea of placing anybody as important above anyone else a foolish endeavor.

I really don’t think so. This was not just a person who was attacking his own people. He has attacked 5 separate countries, attempted an assassination of Bush sr. as well as paid the families of suicide bombers $25,000 (a large sum in the Mid-East) for killing Jews.

Yes there are many ruthless people, but bringing them up is like bringing up marijuana smokers when the discussion is cocaine dealers. Are you saying that if some killers are getting away with murder, we should let them all get away?

We had to deal with the most important threat we could see. And that was Saddam. Our intelligence may not have been right, but what if it was? What if it was worse? You still think we should have had a wait and see attitude? Bush would have been impeached, and you would be calling for his head.

Also do you realize how big of a threat he actually was? We may have only found a small portion of WMD chemicals, but his programs were fully functional, and could have produced a massive stockpile of these chemicals in no time.

Or do you only agree with the 911 commission, and the Kay reports, only in the parts that make Bush look bad? You have to take it as a whole. Even without those weapons, Saddam was a big threat. Weapons inspector Kay has said so, and that Saddam was a much bigger potential threat then anyone could have imagined.

Now who are all of these terrible dictators you keep bringing up anyway? (You know, to change the subject, and add in irrelevant data to make a faulty point.) I keep hearing about them, but I have yet to hear a name. And yes I know they exist, but I doubt they were anywhere as bad as Saddam, who is responsible for as many as 1 million deaths, possibly more.

Such nice words. Yes Saddam was about to fall, then the food for oil program happened, and that not only saved him, but helped him back to immense power. Including netting him over $10 Billion. No he was not going to fall after that.

If you actually knew this information, you would realize Both Bush sr. and jr. were right.

The problem occurred when Saddam made sure that it looked like people were suffering in his country. He saved up all the dead children, (against Islamic law) and placed them around when the cameras would show up. It worked by creating the food for oil program, which was promptly corrupted, and brought Saddam back to power. Guilt saved Saddam.

So you are saying we should put Saddam back in power? Don’t say no, because that means we were right to take him out. To say we were wrong is to say you want him back in power. I want to make sure you know you can’t have it both ways.

Now as far as North Korea, all Kim Jong-il wants to do is scare everyone into giving him stuff. His country is failing, and the only way to keep it afloat is to use these scare tactics. (Not the Sci-Fi show.) This is a repeated tactic he has used.

And this is being dealt with. You don’t just attack any country. (Don’t twist my words here.) We spent 13 years working on Saddam, and while it worked at first, it began to backfire because of the food for oil.

Kim Jong-il is a completely different situation. Who has North Korea attacked recently? Unlike Saddam, he doesn’t have money flowing out of his land. Are you saying that we should invade North Korea? Honestly are you? If not, why keep bringing it up? Just another tactic to win an argument by bringing in irrelevant information. I remember somebody asking why we don’t invade Canada, or Mexico. If it is not a correct analogy, it is an attempt to go off subject to win an argument.

An attack while kissing my ass? Good job.

The reason you are not seeing the logic might be because it is above your level of thinking. You just don’t get it. Instead of following my argument, you are so busy attempting to argue, you are not paying attention to what is being said.

I know you wouldn’t get that. There can never be a logical argument made to a grieving family. I feel sorry for all of them. But I also feel sorry for all the deaths due to cancer, heart disease, drunk driving, and bicycling accidents. Oh yeah, the families of people killed because of a suicide bomber too.

Going back to bicycling, there were 662 deaths due to bicycling alone in 2002. While you are complaining about 1000 due to war in over a year and a half. (Which averages out to close to the same.) This means that going to war is as dangerous as riding a bike. If you don’t think so, tell that to the relatives of a bike rider who has died on their bike. (Like your “logical” argument?)

I think it was necessary to defend us against this potential threat. Are you saying we should wait until he becomes a world power? Until he actually has a Nuke stockpile? What would the deaths look like then?

And as far as offering myself up, how? I would not be accepted, because I am over the age to join. But my wife has two brothers in the military. One in the Air Force, (with army experience,) and one who just joined the Navy. In basic as we speak. And I am proud of both of them.

What you need to realize is that when you are in the military, you agree to put your life on the line. I knew that when I spent a short time in the Navy myself. (Believe it or not, the only thing I couldn’t stand was being locked into a contract for 6 years. If I was not under contract, I probably would have went for 20 years, if I was not kicked out before then that is.)

My family is not over there, yet, but they could go. If another conflict pops up, they could end up in that. That is just part of being in the military.

Now have you told these relatives of yours that what they are doing is wrong? Or do they believe in what they are doing?

[quote]Roy Batty wrote:
RJ,
…I hate to see us like this. The media doesn’t help. Actually it pours gasoline on the problem with shows like Crossfire and Hannity and Colmes.

[/quote]

I gues you must have overlooked the NYT, CBS News, The UN, and of course, Dan Rather. Or are we just talking gasoline, and overlooking the boobietraps and lies?