Andersons…yup, got the same problem as you. Strict dieting is the only way for me to stay below the 10-12% mark.
The only thing that ever maintained my BF% was the low-carb diet. I’m talking ~30 net carbs per day…I’m VERY insulin insensitive.
I’m on Berardi’s Massive Eating now, and I immediately blew up to ~14% BF from ~10%. I gained about 10 pounds in a little more then one month, and my abs are officially hibernating for the winter. These were clean foods I was eating, too! Sigh. At least I’ve made serious strength gains eating big.
However, I think tweaking the diet, and always staying below 100g carbs/day will be the only way I can stay lean. That means Surge and a 2nd PWO meal with carbs…and that’s it for the day, except incidental carbs from my veggies. Ouch!
Yeah, I envy those types who can eat whatever and not worry about BF, but no sense crying over it! Low carb it is.
as, yours is the story I wanted to hear. I guess I was looking for evidence that there ARE people out there who work out, generally eat healthy but do indulge at times (pizza, creme brulee, chocolate pecan pie, pasta. . .), and yet stay consistently lean - without using drugs or even lots of supplements to do so. It would encourage me even more if some of these people were over 30.
I wanted to have hope that, if I do drop all the fat I’ve gained and get pretty lean, I can then not be so strict about my diet and still stay lean. Because if I have to eat like this forever just to maintain the BF% I had when I was younger, I don’t know if it’s worth it for me.
LittleJay, JeffRage, yours are the opposite stories I did NOT want to hear.
Hey people, this is a good thread… just to throw my 2 cents in- I have tried many different “diets” and workout programs in my 10+ years of straight training and have even competed in natural bodybuilding… the key is BALANCE. I grew up big, 260 at 6’1 when i graduated high school and my waist was as big as 48 inches. i am now 198 pounds and i can’t say what my BF is because the various methods provide different results- but i can tell you my skinfolds: abdominal 1 inch to either side of bellybutton, horizontal pinch: 6mm, outer upper chest horizontal 5mm, mid thigh verticle 5mm… I attribute this to at least 6 meals a day with a balance of protein, carbs and fats, 95 percent whole foods, and 5% cheating on cookies and what not on the weekends… but the key is moderation- have a few cookies, not the whole bag, etc… but you’ve probably heard all this before… i found the most useful article to me was Berardi’s “creation of a T Man” i am currently chowing down just like he outlines in “the creation continues” and following a customized version of his routine and seeing strength gains and overall “health and wellbeing” gains in just 3 weeks… mind you it has taken me 10 years to get to this point where the “discipline” of eating healthy becomes a “pleasure…”
I think you finally hit the nail on the head. Its takes tons of persistence to get “lean”, but once there it is easier to maintain and still have some cheats. I hover around 9-11% in my offseason and Im 5’6" and 170 currently, so Id say i have decent mass, most think so, I posted pics months ago if you wanna look back. Anyways, my point is I fluctuate because I let myself indulge a bit here and there, but when I see that bit a swelling around the bottom ab its time to be strict for a few weeks. This has kept me sane and in shape. But to be honest I do generally eat the same thing day in day out with random cheats.
So yes once you are where you want to be you can have random cheats and maintain the bodyfat and gain lean tissue slowly while doing so.
I should also note I dont do any cardio, Id rather eat right, then have to peddle the calories off, plus I think it impedes gains, in my case anyways.
I’m currently 85.5kg or 188lb at 12% BF. This is following a general P/F P/C approach. Still I drink at the weekend and have a couple of Mac Attacks or KFC’s a week.
Cardio is about 1.5 hrs a week. This is currently the biggest I’ve ever been using Westside. Consume about 3000-3500kCal/day. I am 5 days into a M-1-T 10mg 2 weeker. Maybe 3 pounds weight gain.
The leanest I’ve been is 6.5% at 172lb whilst on CKD. Could see my abs then, can’t now, but they’re not very big. I think i’m insulin insensitive. Feel lethargic after carb meals so only try to consume them pre/post workout and for breakfast.
Frankly I feel on the limit of what i find acceptable in terms of fat. 12% seems too high for me. I’d prefer to be on the 10% mark. If I dial in my diet better with better carb sources and cut out the junk I can maintain 8% fairly easily.
Used to run alot 3-4 hours a week whilst running 1/2 marathons. Staying at 8% was very easy! No matter what I ate but my strength stalled big time even whilst (trying to) power-lift 3-4 times a week. Especially my squat which actually got worst, then levelled out.
As a former big boy 240lbs. I find that I must not only stick to a strict diet, but I also must do a good amount of cardio post workout. I am like you guys and like to have fun on the weekends sometimes and stuff, but if I do that too often I blow up like no other, so if I want to keep it at bay I must stay on the wagon so to speak. One day at a time is my motto…J
When I was 170 and 6% BF I was also 20 years old. I put on some mass over the years but I put on some year too. So now I can’t eat like a horse and not blimp out. It’s just the way it is. I have more lean mass than I used to wiegh but I have to watch my diet now.
I just pick my time and place to let go and just enjoy the food and drink, then get back on the wagon for a while so I don’t have to join a 12 step support group for lard asses.
To Andersons. Just like theosnacks said once you get to a certain bodyfat level you can maintain it fairly easy. As long as you don’t start constantly eating like a slob you shouldn’t get too far from your peak. Satisfying your cravings and binging on something good here and there is not going to hurt you that much. You gotta live life. I believe people with average metabolisms won’t gain back more than 2-3% bodyfat on maintainance calories and probably about 3-4% when clean bulking. Like I said some people (like myself) had to kill themselves to get their bodyfat very low, but once there you can live pretty normal and maintain.
“Man, I thought it was extremely difficult to maintain my bf level when it was low! I didn’t stay that lean for long,” said Jeff as he was talking to the wall in the conver of the room.
I have to really fight to stay lean. I have the appetite of ten people. I think the best way to get lean and stay there is to have a goal. I was once 240 (5’8") obese, hadnt trained for 3 yrs at the time and lived on pizza and poptarts and coronas. I went down to 160 in 10months and was scrawny. I am now at 210, have been up to 220, but staying at 210. my main goal now is to do a show in june. so for the first time ever I will hit the 3-5%bf mark. I want to then stay under 10% yr round. ok I am gonna enjoy this snowy day and eat another donut while I drink my hot chocolate.
OK, the depressing consensus I’m getting is that in order to be ideally lean and muscular, people first need to get pretty lean through a pretty strict “clean” diet, and then stay lean for awhile. At that point it is possible to eat more fun stuff, but still, people have to limit the fun stuff, cut back when bodyfat increases, and/or add more cardio.
The possible exceptions who can eat a ton of anything they want (?) are resolute, Wideguy, lumberjak, and ryan b. So the question is, specifically what exactly are you eating? Are you stuffing yourselves with Krispy Kremes to your heart’s content? Eating a whole pizza for dinner? Or are you eating 10 chicken breasts a day? Also, how old are you?
Eat whatever i want and pretty much maintain weight? yes.
Yeah, sometimes i eat a whole pizza in a sitting.
Ive found that in order to maintain a certain Lean body mass, i first need to get to about 10lbs heavier than what i want to maintain (that is, i can maintain 190-195 with no problem if i bust my ass to get up to 205ish) ive always been like this. if i train real heard and eat a ton i gain pretty much only muscle and then if i start to slack off on diet or training, ill lose about 10lbs but then maintain relatively easily. its been this way(10lb “steps” in increase of lean body mass) since i weighed in the low 160s 4 years ago. that is, if i got to 175, i could "maintain"165, 185 equaled maintaining 175ish, etc.
i guess its still all math. my maintenance calories for 193lbs are probably around 3000kcal and thats what i comfortably eat (not starving, not stuffing myself. ie, im not tracking my diet/nutrition) when im weighing in the low 190s.
as far as gaining little or no fat and still making great gains (muscle):
im very active. i love to run. i skateboard, i wrestle, i go hiking alot, i started surfing, i will go workout with some one for fun on an off day. im always doing something physical.
ive also noticed the more i start eating; like when i really jack my calories up (im eating about 4500/day right now) i have ALOT of energy and i start doing my other activities more often. im sure this contributes to my staying lean. ive tried to purposefully eat enough food so i couldnt see my abs (THAT WAS PART OF MY GOAL!) and i couldnt do it. i got up to 208 and was eating between 5500and 6000kcal/day. i tried not to do anything but lift and study and sleep and i freaked out after a week of boredom and started doing sprintwork and hiking alot again.
i suppose you could call the above an increase in GPP. so although one might not do the same activities i do, i think you could just keep uppping your GPP and get similiar results.
there might be something im overlooking here or that we need to look at more closely. i dont know?
right now im trying to get back up to 205 so im eating about 4500kcal/day (aiming for 5500 in about a week or so).
my food log from the other day looks like this
Prot=230 Carb=450 Fat=200 Kcal=c.4500
and, of course, i feel like running just a few more sprints or doing a couple extra overhead walks or dragging the tire for an extra 50’ or so. i suppose i could “ignore” the extra oomph im feeling but why? maybe i would gain weight a little faster but im happy with how things are going.
hopefully some others reply back and we can keep looking at this.
andersons in your last post you wrote:
“OK, the depressing consensus I’m getting is that in order to be ideally lean and muscular, people first need to get pretty lean through a pretty strict “clean” diet, and then stay lean for awhile. At that point it is possible to eat more fun stuff, but still, people have to limit the fun stuff, cut back when bodyfat increases, and/or add more cardio.”
basically thats what i detailed i was doing (in my above post). so yeah, maybe that is what is needed.
then you wrote:
“The possible exceptions who can eat a ton of anything they want (?) are resolute, Wideguy, lumberjak, and ryan b.”
im guessing these guys are doing something similiar to what im doing.
last question was:
“So the question is, specifically what exactly are you eating? Are you stuffing yourselves with Krispy Kremes to your heart’s content? Eating a whole pizza for dinner? Or are you eating 10 chicken breasts a day? Also, how old are you?”
i think i answered the dietary info above.
i am 27 (28 in a few months…).
i have always been lean (underfed). i didnt start gaining til i really started training and eating hard. its been a good past 4years!
Thanks, SteelyEyes, I’ll ask them not to cut MY pizza! One piece surely won’t hurt me.
ryan b., you’re basically adding to the confirmation that people who stay consistently lean have different habits than people who don’t. You are very active. I sit in front of a computer all day long.
This is my 4th diet in 3 1/2 years or so. I’m a woman, 33 years old. Up until 4 years ago or so, I never even had to try to stay lean, apparently because of youth, activity levels, and/or metabolism. I don’t want to keep yo-yo-ing. It occurred to me that people here clearly know how to diet and lose fat, but I was wondering if they know how to keep it off. I’m trying to work out a plan to get lean and then stay that way this time. But I love food too, so I’m trying to get a feel for what I might have to do to be able to stay lean and still eat pizza and Haagen-Dazs, not to mention the Honey Walnut Shrimp dish at Thaifoon restaurant nearby. Incredible dish! Whoops, I’m digressing. . .
I am hungry. Time to go home and eat my lovely chicken breast and veggies and fish oil. Sigh.
I suppose you could experiment with various recipes to make the clean food more exciting to your tastebuds. That might make eating good long term a bit more tolerable.
Hello andersons, I thought i would just mention that for me at least, it is much easier to eat “chicken, veggies and fish oil” like you said in your last post, when there is a variety towhat you eat which means preparation… for instance, right now i am downing a stir fry with veggies i got from the cheap produce stand- a 1 pound bag of pre cut veggies for a buck… i threw in a tbs of olive oil, 150g of pre cooked beef from my big meat cooking fest yesterday, and the veggies with some soya sauce… when i first started my personal “health food kick” 8 or so years ago i was downing plain tuna, broccoli, and fish oil…yuck… the point i’m making is that you’ll stick with it if the healthy food is tasty, and that means some planning and effort on your part… like Berardi said in his last article, just cook all your meat and starches on sunday and shop at the cheap produce mart for your veggies, pre-make protein shakes etc… that makes ALL the difference for me… but trust me, if you keep at it eventually your body won’t crave the sweets or junk because you are PREPARED and eat AMPLE quantities of healthy foods. Just my 2 cents! Take care
Pete
“But I love food too, so I’m trying to get a feel for what I might have to do to be able to stay lean and still eat pizza and Haagen-Dazs, not to mention the Honey Walnut Shrimp dish at Thaifoon restaurant nearby”
You need to break out of that. Food should be viewed as a way to meet your goals. Its less about discipline and more about DESIRE. Do you desire to be lean or be able to eat Haagen-Dazs and sugar dipped shrimp. Im not necessarily the most disciplined but I have a lot of desire to look my best.
Unfortunately, you may not be able to have both on a regular basis. You may be able to stay lean, and only have one of those goodies per week. Not one per day. My general rule is one cheat meal per week if not getting ready to show.
But again what may be lean and good looking to you could be something totally different to me or anybody else telling you what they do to maintain a healthy look. Good luck,
