T Nation

Consipracy Theory with Jesse Ventura

I started watching this show last week which was the 9/11…lastnight it was about global warming and world domonation. Anyone else caught these shows? What are your thoughts?

If the evidence he presents is true…we as a society are in deep shit!!!

I watched last night. It’s absolutely wonderful that jesse is taking the alex jones torch and bringing it to cable TV. Even if they aren’t going to get any groundbreaking answers, I just hope they get more people asking these questions.

The climategate thing was just such a big win for the truth movement. I mean One of the most common arguments I hear is hwo could such a wide reaching conspiracy be kept quite by so many people for 1,3,5,19 years. And here we have climategate which was kept secret for nearly 8 years and was only leaked when some hackers broke in and stole the info. It’s not like an insider leaked the information. Most people just have no idea what individual humans will do for money and power. These people were more than willing to CRUSH the world economy, and all it was really about was them getting rich off the waves of upcoming government spending. The investment by the private sector in green type companies. Etc…

V

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I watched last night. It’s absolutely wonderful that jesse is taking the alex jones torch and bringing it to cable TV. Even if they aren’t going to get any groundbreaking answers, I just hope they get more people asking these questions.

The climategate thing was just such a big win for the truth movement. I mean One of the most common arguments I hear is hwo could such a wide reaching conspiracy be kept quite by so many people for 1,3,5,19 years. And here we have climategate which was kept secret for nearly 8 years and was only leaked when some hackers broke in and stole the info. It’s not like an insider leaked the information. Most people just have no idea what individual humans will do for money and power. These people were more than willing to CRUSH the world economy, and all it was really about was them getting rich off the waves of upcoming government spending. The investment by the private sector in green type companies. Etc…

V[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve posted. To answer the question as to how such a thing can be kept secret is very simple. The prevailing politically correct environment is a natural for keeping such things a secret. If you speak out against a politically correct notion you are immediately castigated on the public stage. It’s not a matter of certain scientists stepping up and telling the truth, they’d be glad to if they would not be publicly humiliated and have their careers threatened.

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I watched last night. It’s absolutely wonderful that jesse is taking the alex jones torch and bringing it to cable TV. Even if they aren’t going to get any groundbreaking answers, I just hope they get more people asking these questions.

The climategate thing was just such a big win for the truth movement. I mean One of the most common arguments I hear is hwo could such a wide reaching conspiracy be kept quite by so many people for 1,3,5,19 years. And here we have climategate which was kept secret for nearly 8 years and was only leaked when some hackers broke in and stole the info. It’s not like an insider leaked the information. Most people just have no idea what individual humans will do for money and power. These people were more than willing to CRUSH the world economy, and all it was really about was them getting rich off the waves of upcoming government spending. The investment by the private sector in green type companies. Etc…

V[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve posted. To answer the question as to how such a thing can be kept secret is very simple. The prevailing politically correct environment is a natural for keeping such things a secret. If you speak out against a politically correct notion you are immediately castigated on the public stage. It’s not a matter of certain scientists stepping up and telling the truth, they’d be glad to if they would not be publicly humiliated and have their careers threatened.

[/quote]

So would you then say that it would be a possible reality that IF there was government involvement in the 9-11 attacks that anyone who was involved would not leak the information for fear that the group they would betray would likley hunt them and kill them and thier families/loved ones? Would you also say that it is a possibility for this group to not only not leak information but try as hard as they can to actively cover up and hide any involvement they and others had. Certainly if they came out, even as a whistle blower they would eventually be tried themselves and executed for treason right? So there really would be very little to gain from becoming a 9-11 whistleblower at this given point in time. 50 years from now maybe, but then it will most likley be far too late to actually prosecute anyone for anything.

V

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I watched last night. It’s absolutely wonderful that jesse is taking the alex jones torch and bringing it to cable TV. Even if they aren’t going to get any groundbreaking answers, I just hope they get more people asking these questions.

The climategate thing was just such a big win for the truth movement. I mean One of the most common arguments I hear is hwo could such a wide reaching conspiracy be kept quite by so many people for 1,3,5,19 years. And here we have climategate which was kept secret for nearly 8 years and was only leaked when some hackers broke in and stole the info. It’s not like an insider leaked the information. Most people just have no idea what individual humans will do for money and power. These people were more than willing to CRUSH the world economy, and all it was really about was them getting rich off the waves of upcoming government spending. The investment by the private sector in green type companies. Etc…

V[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve posted. To answer the question as to how such a thing can be kept secret is very simple. The prevailing politically correct environment is a natural for keeping such things a secret. If you speak out against a politically correct notion you are immediately castigated on the public stage. It’s not a matter of certain scientists stepping up and telling the truth, they’d be glad to if they would not be publicly humiliated and have their careers threatened.

[/quote]

So would you then say that it would be a possible reality that IF there was government involvement in the 9-11 attacks that anyone who was involved would not leak the information for fear that the group they would betray would likley hunt them and kill them and thier families/loved ones? Would you also say that it is a possibility for this group to not only not leak information but try as hard as they can to actively cover up and hide any involvement they and others had. Certainly if they came out, even as a whistle blower they would eventually be tried themselves and executed for treason right? So there really would be very little to gain from becoming a 9-11 whistleblower at this given point in time. 50 years from now maybe, but then it will most likley be far too late to actually prosecute anyone for anything.

V[/quote]

I’m not saying that at all. Anyone who actually believes that our own government would blow up the twin towers falls into one of the following groups:

  1. Driven to wild conspiracy theories because of an extreme lack of trust in our government(no you shouldn’t trust the government but this group goes over the edge).

  2. Very young. I like young people, they’re gullible, curious, imaginative and did I mention that they’re gullible?

  3. Has a very low IQ. Sorry to say it but stupid people fall for just about everything. “I read it on the Internet it must be true”!

  4. Driven by some sort of profit motive. This one is what drives the cottage industry of “the government did it”. And it’s the same motive that drives the UFO craze. Books, articles, TV shows, etc. Always follow the money.

I can create a conspiracy theory on almost any topic you can name and make it sound believable. I think we’d all be better served if this conspiracy theory died, but it won’t, it will never die as long as group four is making money and groups one, two and three have some money to spend.

Also: a quite substantial percentage of people in government in 2001-2002 were rabidly Bush-hating partisans.

It wasn’t your ordinary degree of Democrat/Republican partisanship, but rather a situation where quite many were driven into the later-categorized Bush Derangement Syndrome by how the 2000 election was presented to them. The fact that Gore didn’t get the selective, highly-targeted re-re-recount he demanded, having lost the first three counts all done according to best of ability and methods established at the time, had them utterly, utterly, utterly unhinged and in quite the rabid state.

They would have loved nothing more than to be able to pin Bush either for having knowledge 9/11 was going to happen or for in any way being demonstrably negligent or anyone in his Administration being demonstrably negligent.

They would have absolutely loved it.

The best they could actually come up with was disparaging remarks about “dot connecting.”

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I watched last night. It’s absolutely wonderful that jesse is taking the alex jones torch and bringing it to cable TV. Even if they aren’t going to get any groundbreaking answers, I just hope they get more people asking these questions.

The climategate thing was just such a big win for the truth movement. I mean One of the most common arguments I hear is hwo could such a wide reaching conspiracy be kept quite by so many people for 1,3,5,19 years. And here we have climategate which was kept secret for nearly 8 years and was only leaked when some hackers broke in and stole the info. It’s not like an insider leaked the information. Most people just have no idea what individual humans will do for money and power. These people were more than willing to CRUSH the world economy, and all it was really about was them getting rich off the waves of upcoming government spending. The investment by the private sector in green type companies. Etc…

V[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve posted. To answer the question as to how such a thing can be kept secret is very simple. The prevailing politically correct environment is a natural for keeping such things a secret. If you speak out against a politically correct notion you are immediately castigated on the public stage. It’s not a matter of certain scientists stepping up and telling the truth, they’d be glad to if they would not be publicly humiliated and have their careers threatened.

[/quote]

So would you then say that it would be a possible reality that IF there was government involvement in the 9-11 attacks that anyone who was involved would not leak the information for fear that the group they would betray would likley hunt them and kill them and thier families/loved ones? Would you also say that it is a possibility for this group to not only not leak information but try as hard as they can to actively cover up and hide any involvement they and others had. Certainly if they came out, even as a whistle blower they would eventually be tried themselves and executed for treason right? So there really would be very little to gain from becoming a 9-11 whistleblower at this given point in time. 50 years from now maybe, but then it will most likley be far too late to actually prosecute anyone for anything.

V[/quote]

I’m not saying that at all. Anyone who actually believes that our own government would blow up the twin towers falls into one of the following groups:

  1. Driven to wild conspiracy theories because of an extreme lack of trust in our government(no you shouldn’t trust the government but this group goes over the edge).

  2. Very young. I like young people, they’re gullible, curious, imaginative and did I mention that they’re gullible?

  3. Has a very low IQ. Sorry to say it but stupid people fall for just about everything. “I read it on the Internet it must be true”!

  4. Driven by some sort of profit motive. This one is what drives the cottage industry of “the government did it”. And it’s the same motive that drives the UFO craze. Books, articles, TV shows, etc. Always follow the money.

I can create a conspiracy theory on almost any topic you can name and make it sound believable. I think we’d all be better served if this conspiracy theory died, but it won’t, it will never die as long as group four is making money and groups one, two and three have some money to spend.

[/quote]

Only 4 categories? What stone carved Book was that page in?

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Also: a quite substantial percentage of people in government in 2001-2002 were rabidly Bush-hating leftists.

It wasn’t your ordinary degree of Democrat/Republican partisanship, but rather a situation where quite many were driven into the later-categorized Bush Derangement Syndrome by how the 2000 election was presented to them. The fact that Gore didn’t get a re-re-recount, having lost the first three counts all done according to best of ability and methods established at the time, had them utterly, utterly, utterly unhinged and in quite the rabid state.

They would have loved nothing more than to be able to pin Bush either for having knowledge 9/11 was going to happen or for in any way being demonstrably negligent or anyone in his Administration being demonstrably negligent.

They would have absolutely loved it.

The best they could actually come up with was disparaging remarks about “dot connecting.”[/quote]

That is likley, if you believe that there are still two distinct parties who hate eachother that comprise our government. To me it feels and looks more and more like one party who is putting up a charade to keep us busy arguing amongst ourselves. But as Zeb already pointed out, I’m young, have a low IQ, and I forgot the other two, probably due to my low IQ, so I’m most likley out of touch with reality.

V

You never met a rabidly Bush-hating partisan at around that time point?

Or if it is the case that you are thinking that when one Administration comes in, a hundred thousand employees of the various departments are purged so as to be replaced with party loyalists, that is not the case.

I would agree with your general view that at the top level, the parties largely have common interests, but to think that among thousands of government employees, none or exceedingly few were true Bush-haters and therefore a conspiracy of silence was possible appears completely unreasonable to me.

And, Zeb’s point was that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are either young, have a low IQ, have an extreme over-the-edge distrust of government, or have a profit motive.

Not that you must combine them all at the same time :slight_smile:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
And, Zeb’s point was that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are either young, have a low IQ, have an extreme over-the-edge distrust of government, or have a profit motive, or good questions.

Not that you must combine them all at the same time :slight_smile: [/quote]

fixed.

On a totally unrelated note, I wonder if the citizens in Germany that ren around warning that some crazy party is trying to take over. Surely they were labeled Conspiracy Nuts and granted most also were executed.

Well, you know, when people claim it’s super-suspicious that objects fall straight downwards under the pull of gravity when no longer supported, and make that fact allegedly-important evidence for their theory, judgment does get called into question.

[quote]Gregus wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
And, Zeb’s point was that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are either young, have a low IQ, have an extreme over-the-edge distrust of government, or have a profit motive, or good questions.

Not that you must combine them all at the same time :slight_smile: [/quote]

fixed.

On a totally unrelated note, I wonder if the citizens in Germany that ren around warning that some crazy party is trying to take over. Surely they were labeled Conspiracy Nuts and granted most also were executed. [/quote]

I fail to see how that is relevant? They are evil Germans, not good Americans.

V

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I watched last night. It’s absolutely wonderful that jesse is taking the alex jones torch and bringing it to cable TV. Even if they aren’t going to get any groundbreaking answers, I just hope they get more people asking these questions.

The climategate thing was just such a big win for the truth movement. I mean One of the most common arguments I hear is hwo could such a wide reaching conspiracy be kept quite by so many people for 1,3,5,19 years. And here we have climategate which was kept secret for nearly 8 years and was only leaked when some hackers broke in and stole the info. It’s not like an insider leaked the information. Most people just have no idea what individual humans will do for money and power. These people were more than willing to CRUSH the world economy, and all it was really about was them getting rich off the waves of upcoming government spending. The investment by the private sector in green type companies. Etc…

V[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve posted. To answer the question as to how such a thing can be kept secret is very simple. The prevailing politically correct environment is a natural for keeping such things a secret. If you speak out against a politically correct notion you are immediately castigated on the public stage. It’s not a matter of certain scientists stepping up and telling the truth, they’d be glad to if they would not be publicly humiliated and have their careers threatened.

[/quote]

So would you then say that it would be a possible reality that IF there was government involvement in the 9-11 attacks that anyone who was involved would not leak the information for fear that the group they would betray would likley hunt them and kill them and thier families/loved ones? Would you also say that it is a possibility for this group to not only not leak information but try as hard as they can to actively cover up and hide any involvement they and others had. Certainly if they came out, even as a whistle blower they would eventually be tried themselves and executed for treason right? So there really would be very little to gain from becoming a 9-11 whistleblower at this given point in time. 50 years from now maybe, but then it will most likley be far too late to actually prosecute anyone for anything.

V[/quote]

I’m not saying that at all. Anyone who actually believes that our own government would blow up the twin towers falls into one of the following groups:

  1. Driven to wild conspiracy theories because of an extreme lack of trust in our government(no you shouldn’t trust the government but this group goes over the edge).

  2. Very young. I like young people, they’re gullible, curious, imaginative and did I mention that they’re gullible?

  3. Has a very low IQ. Sorry to say it but stupid people fall for just about everything. “I read it on the Internet it must be true”!

  4. Driven by some sort of profit motive. This one is what drives the cottage industry of “the government did it”. And it’s the same motive that drives the UFO craze. Books, articles, TV shows, etc. Always follow the money.

I can create a conspiracy theory on almost any topic you can name and make it sound believable. I think we’d all be better served if this conspiracy theory died, but it won’t, it will never die as long as group four is making money and groups one, two and three have some money to spend.

[/quote]

I fall into none of those categories yet I fully believe that 9/11 was an inside job.Anyone who takes the time to look at the facts should be able to figure that out.

Now Im not saying the “government” did it, but certainly a group who opperates in and around the united states did.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, you know, when people claim it’s super-suspicious that objects fall straight downwards under the pull of gravity when no longer supported, and make that fact allegedly-important evidence for their theory, judgment does get called into question.[/quote]

No, not at all, we completely agree that when things are no longer supported they would fall straight down, we just don’t buy that the supports of the building magically all failed at the same time due to fire. They obviously all failed at the same time, that we are not questioning at all. (building 7) Especially when the cause of the fire was applied to one side of the building. Logic would lead me to believe the damage would be greater on the side of the source of the fire and would be less on the side furthest from the source. Again, it would just be logical if the side of the building whose supports encountered the fire first had collapsed first. Of course this also would be the first steel framed skyscraper to ever collapse ONLY from fire, so there is that too. ???

V

[quote]horsepuss wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]ZEB wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:
I watched last night. It’s absolutely wonderful that jesse is taking the alex jones torch and bringing it to cable TV. Even if they aren’t going to get any groundbreaking answers, I just hope they get more people asking these questions.

The climategate thing was just such a big win for the truth movement. I mean One of the most common arguments I hear is hwo could such a wide reaching conspiracy be kept quite by so many people for 1,3,5,19 years. And here we have climategate which was kept secret for nearly 8 years and was only leaked when some hackers broke in and stole the info. It’s not like an insider leaked the information. Most people just have no idea what individual humans will do for money and power. These people were more than willing to CRUSH the world economy, and all it was really about was them getting rich off the waves of upcoming government spending. The investment by the private sector in green type companies. Etc…

V[/quote]

I agree with what you’ve posted. To answer the question as to how such a thing can be kept secret is very simple. The prevailing politically correct environment is a natural for keeping such things a secret. If you speak out against a politically correct notion you are immediately castigated on the public stage. It’s not a matter of certain scientists stepping up and telling the truth, they’d be glad to if they would not be publicly humiliated and have their careers threatened.

[/quote]

So would you then say that it would be a possible reality that IF there was government involvement in the 9-11 attacks that anyone who was involved would not leak the information for fear that the group they would betray would likley hunt them and kill them and thier families/loved ones? Would you also say that it is a possibility for this group to not only not leak information but try as hard as they can to actively cover up and hide any involvement they and others had. Certainly if they came out, even as a whistle blower they would eventually be tried themselves and executed for treason right? So there really would be very little to gain from becoming a 9-11 whistleblower at this given point in time. 50 years from now maybe, but then it will most likley be far too late to actually prosecute anyone for anything.

V[/quote]

I’m not saying that at all. Anyone who actually believes that our own government would blow up the twin towers falls into one of the following groups:

  1. Driven to wild conspiracy theories because of an extreme lack of trust in our government(no you shouldn’t trust the government but this group goes over the edge).

  2. Very young. I like young people, they’re gullible, curious, imaginative and did I mention that they’re gullible?

  3. Has a very low IQ. Sorry to say it but stupid people fall for just about everything. “I read it on the Internet it must be true”!

  4. Driven by some sort of profit motive. This one is what drives the cottage industry of “the government did it”. And it’s the same motive that drives the UFO craze. Books, articles, TV shows, etc. Always follow the money.

I can create a conspiracy theory on almost any topic you can name and make it sound believable. I think we’d all be better served if this conspiracy theory died, but it won’t, it will never die as long as group four is making money and groups one, two and three have some money to spend.

[/quote]

I fall into none of those categories yet I fully believe that 9/11 was an inside job.Anyone who takes the time to look at the facts should be able to figure that out.

Now Im not saying the “government” did it, but certainly a group who opperates in and around the united states did.
[/quote]

No, If anyone within or with ties to the government knew about it then every aid and worker in the government would have to know about it also. A Small group could never pull this off. Well of course unless they had the unlimited resources of a cave and some turbans, then they could pull it off.

V

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, you know, when people claim it’s super-suspicious that objects fall straight downwards under the pull of gravity when no longer supported, and make that fact allegedly-important evidence for their theory, judgment does get called into question.[/quote]

No, not at all, we completely agree that when things are no longer supported they would fall straight down, we just don’t buy that the supports of the building magically all failed at the same time due to fire. They obviously all failed at the same time, that we are not questioning at all. (building 7) Especially when the cause of the fire was applied to one side of the building. Logic would lead me to believe the damage would be greater on the side of the source of the fire and would be less on the side furthest from the source. Again, it would just be logical if the side of the building whose supports encountered the fire first had collapsed first. Of course this also would be the first steel framed skyscraper to ever collapse ONLY from fire, so there is that too. ???

V[/quote]

Still going to fall straight down.

And still catastrophically and suddenly: one moment still (just) able to support the massive weight above, and the next moment, not.

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]Gregus wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
And, Zeb’s point was that 9/11 conspiracy theorists are either young, have a low IQ, have an extreme over-the-edge distrust of government, or have a profit motive, or good questions.

Not that you must combine them all at the same time :slight_smile: [/quote]

fixed.

On a totally unrelated note, I wonder if the citizens in Germany that ren around warning that some crazy party is trying to take over. Surely they were labeled Conspiracy Nuts and granted most also were executed. [/quote]

I fail to see how that is relevant? They are evil Germans, not good Americans.

V[/quote]

It’s merely to illustrate that conspiracy theories are sometimes actually dismissed facts and history pans that out. But maybe im preaching to the choir. The last part of my comment was an off handed after thought.

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:

[quote]Vegita wrote:

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
Well, you know, when people claim it’s super-suspicious that objects fall straight downwards under the pull of gravity when no longer supported, and make that fact allegedly-important evidence for their theory, judgment does get called into question.[/quote]

No, not at all, we completely agree that when things are no longer supported they would fall straight down, we just don’t buy that the supports of the building magically all failed at the same time due to fire. They obviously all failed at the same time, that we are not questioning at all. (building 7) Especially when the cause of the fire was applied to one side of the building. Logic would lead me to believe the damage would be greater on the side of the source of the fire and would be less on the side furthest from the source. Again, it would just be logical if the side of the building whose supports encountered the fire first had collapsed first. Of course this also would be the first steel framed skyscraper to ever collapse ONLY from fire, so there is that too. ???

V[/quote]

Still going to fall straight down.

And still catastrophically and suddenly: one moment still (just) able to support the massive weight above, and the next moment, not.[/quote]

And we have so much data to base this on right? Seeing as there have been hundreds of steel framed skyscrapers to collapse from fire, oh wait thats right, this is the first and only, so really there is no way of knowing exactly how it would happen, so having some suspision doesn’t actually make you completely crazy.

Also I disagree with you that it “would” happen this way, steel bends right? So if one side collapsed, I would expect the unweakened steel on the other side of the building to bend before it breaks. The force applied to it would escalate over a period of time from a load it could handle to a load that it could not handle but still slow against gravity, to a load that would cause it to fail completely at slowing. I didn’t see anything that resembled the second stage, it just went from handling the load to not hanling it at all, uniformley throughout the building.

V

If I cut through one leg of the Eifel Tower, would you expect it to fall straight down into it’s own footprint? Or would it fall towards the side where the support was taken out, even if the remaining 3 supports were insufficient to hold the entire weight of the tower up. I just can’t see it falling straight down into it’s own footprint.

V