T Nation

Considering for the 1st Time

Hi everyone. I’m considering trying a course of steroids.

I’m 29 years old. I’ve been training for over 10 years. I’m an ectomorph, I’m 6’4". When I started I was about 72kgs. I’m now 96kgs at around 15% bodyfat. I wouldn’t say my results have been spectacular, but I have consistently gotten stronger over the years.

I can bench press my bodyweight for 4 reps, I can do 12 pull ups with a pause at the top and a controlled eccentric, I can deadlift 1.25x BW for 6reps.

So I’m not awesome, I’m definitely not built. But I have some muscle, and you can tell I’m a fit dude with my shirt on. But I want more than this. I want a big chest, shoulders and arms. I’m sick of being a fit dude. I want to get bigger.

These are the substances I have access to:

stan anabolic liquid (no idea what this is) 50ml bottle - 250mg/ml
testaviron 10ml bottle - 250mg/ml
Yellow dbol tabs - 10mg
trenbolone acetate 10ml - 100mg/ml

I’m sure there are others that I can request, that’s just the list I’ve been given.

I was thinking of a 6-8 week cycle, 8-12 weeks seems like overkill. I don’t need to be massive. Just bigger. I actually DON’T want to gain heaps of muscle. I’d be more than happy with an extra 3-4kgs on my upper body. I’m a professional personal trainer, people are watching me. If it becomes obvious that I’m ‘assisted’ it will be bad for my reputation and business.

Would I see a good result as a newbie if I just used the tren by itself? Would this negate the need for PCT?

Right now I’m thinking Tren with DBol. And for PCT clomid or novaldex, depending on which I can get. Are these my only options for PCT? I already have a son, would like to have more kids, soon so the health of my ‘equipment’ is pretty important. If there’s a chance that I could give myself problems, then I’ll have to pass on this adventure. Having a big chest would be awesome, but kids take precedence.

I appreciate any help that’s offered. Sorry for my lack of knowledge but we all have to start somewhere.

[quote]Sxio wrote:
we all have to start somewhere. [/quote]

The stickies at the top of the steroid forum is a good place.

It’s clear you don’t have a clue about what you’re doing. Regarding drug use, or what you’re doing in the kitchen and in the gym, apparently.

I’m not here to argue about my experience. I already stated that I’m a newbie, and apologised for my lack of knowledge. My reason for posting is to acquire knowledge so I can do this safely. Can you give me some suggestions OTHER than read the stickies? (I already have).

Those are the compounds I have access too. What kind of 1st cycle would YOU suggest for a 1st timer? What compounds for PCT do I need?

You’ve been a contributing member of this site long enough to know better than to throw in the “I don’t want to get ‘too’ big” line.

That said, not the worst stats on earth.

Go with the test and dbol. Run it at test 500-600mg/w (inject 3Xw and arrive at this amount, 2X at the least) and dbol 40mg/d. Frontload the test on the first injection.

Test E W 1 - 8
Dbol W 5 - 10 (you’ll drop the dbol just before you begin your PCT so you can keep anabolics in your system as the test leaves it and you have as little “dead space” with your levels dropping as possible.

The stan is probably liquid oral stanozolol, but the concentration is outrageous. Winstrol isn’t that great, anyway.

Save tren for a later cycle.

You need PCT for just about any cycle. Go with nolva. 40/40/20/20, starting 2 weeks after your last injection of test.

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:
Sxio wrote:
we all have to start somewhere.

The stickies at the top of the steroid forum is a good place.

It’s clear you don’t have a clue about what you’re doing. Regarding drug use, or what you’re doing in the kitchen and in the gym, apparently.[/quote]

I disagree. He’s been a contributing member of this website for a long time, and I have personally gleaned some good info from some of his posts.

Also, although I realize everyone should read the stickies before posting and I agree with that, I think long time vets of the board can get away with a little less, and should get away with it if they’re otherwise productive members and know good info. I feel like he’s been around for a long time and deserves a bit of a break.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
You’ve been a contributing member of this site long enough to know better than to throw in the “I don’t want to get ‘too’ big” line. [/quote]

Yes, but for him it really is an issue. Thibs has stated several times that the size variation plays a large role in his ability to get clients. That is one reason he says he stays around 215 even though he could be bigger without getting his heart too overloaded.

So I view it as an entirely legitimate concern if it can possibly affect his livelihood negatively, through reputation or ability to get clients or otherwise. We ALL know how educated the average person or trainer is on AAS…groan. Besides, I read the concern as being “viewed by others” to be on, or getting “caught” per se. Not that he doesn’t necessarily want to be significantly bigger.

[quote]That said, not the worst stats on earth.

Go with the test and dbol. Run it at test 500-600mg/w (inject 3Xw and arrive at this amount, 2X at the least) and dbol 40mg/d. Frontload the test on the first injection.

Test E W 1 - 8
Dbol W 5 - 10 (you’ll drop the dbol just before you begin your PCT so you can keep anabolics in your system as the test leaves it and you have as little “dead space” with your levels dropping as possible.

The stan is probably liquid oral stanozolol, but the concentration is outrageous. Winstrol isn’t that great, anyway.

Save tren for a later cycle.

You need PCT for just about any cycle. Go with nolva. 40/40/20/20, starting 2 weeks after your last injection of test. [/quote]

I would also say tribulus products could help IN ADDITION to nolva. An acquaintance of mine (yes, really) swears by it. Says it really helps the PCT process.

Go with Cortes’ plan.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
You’ve been a contributing member of this site long enough to know better than to throw in the “I don’t want to get ‘too’ big” line. [/quote]

Hahahaha! Yeah I’ll wear that. Very true. I just wasn’t thinking.

[quote]Cortes wrote:
You need PCT for just about any cycle. Go with nolva. 40/40/20/20, starting 2 weeks after your last injection of test. [/quote]

Even after a DBol only cycle? And would that be even worth my time?

Thanks for the kindness guys. I was actually wincing when I loaded up this page, i was getting ready for all the grief.

I’m touched that people remember me, I haven’t posted on any msgboard for a long time now.

I’d love to get pretty damn huge, but Aragorn hit it on the head. If I gain even 5kgs of muscle ‘overnight’, everyone will know what I’ve been doing. I can’t let that happen. I’m actually pretty happy with where my body is at, I just want more chest (i call it a man-rack).

Thanks for the help Cortes. I really appreciate it. Especially as a post of your in another thread was saying “YOU DON’T BELOING HERE” So thanks for taking the time to help me!

My next step is to let the guy know that I’ll be needing nolva. If he can’t get it or doesn’t know what it is (he seems pretty dumb) then I’m just going to leave it.

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
Cortes wrote:
You’ve been a contributing member of this site long enough to know better than to throw in the “I don’t want to get ‘too’ big” line.

Yes, but for him it really is an issue. Thibs has stated several times that the size variation plays a large role in his ability to get clients. That is one reason he says he stays around 215 even though he could be bigger without getting his heart too overloaded.

So I view it as an entirely legitimate concern if it can possibly affect his livelihood negatively, through reputation or ability to get clients or otherwise. We ALL know how educated the average person or trainer is on AAS…groan. Besides, I read the concern as being “viewed by others” to be on, or getting “caught” per se. Not that he doesn’t necessarily want to be significantly bigger.
[/quote]

You’re right, Aragorn. I just read that the “other” way that I know you also know.

Good to see you in here, bud. Where you hanging out recently? Off site, or some other forum I don’t poke into? I pretty much don’t see anybody unless they are here or PWI, and I do my very best to keep my mouth shut over there, though lately it’s a losing battle.

I’ll add that using dianabol may not be best for your goals simply because of the rapid weight gain. It really is possible to put on 5 pounds over night and 10 pounds in a week with it. It wont be all muscle, obviously, but you will look bigger. The thing is that since you are so tall that rapid weight gain would not be as noticeable as would be for someone my height.

Using it at the end of the cycle would avoid the ‘overnight’ effect but you’d still likely puff up a bit. Even people who diligently use an AI seem to carry water on dbol.

My opinion is to make sure you really want to do it before you buy anything. I understand your goals. But if you have the thought in your head that “Oh I think I’m getting too big and people are talking about it” you may sabatoge gains by eating less than you should be.

So dont eat everything in sight (common sense) but also remember that you will lose some weight after the cycle ends no matter what. If you get to a point that you are happy with you will have to gain some more weight to able to stay at the size you like after the post cycle losses.

[quote]Sxio wrote:
Cortes wrote:
You’ve been a contributing member of this site long enough to know better than to throw in the “I don’t want to get ‘too’ big” line.

Hahahaha! Yeah I’ll wear that. Very true. I just wasn’t thinking.

Cortes wrote:
You need PCT for just about any cycle. Go with nolva. 40/40/20/20, starting 2 weeks after your last injection of test.

Even after a DBol only cycle? And would that be even worth my time?

Thanks for the kindness guys. I was actually wincing when I loaded up this page, i was getting ready for all the grief.

I’m touched that people remember me, I haven’t posted on any msgboard for a long time now.

I’d love to get pretty damn huge, but Aragorn hit it on the head. If I gain even 5kgs of muscle ‘overnight’, everyone will know what I’ve been doing. I can’t let that happen. I’m actually pretty happy with where my body is at, I just want more chest (i call it a man-rack).
[/quote]
Okay then, drop the dbol, stick with only test, keep your diet in check, go above, but not too far above maintenance calories on cycle. You’ll hear a lot about using a lot of supersets, drop sets, lots of volume, etc. Do that. Every workout. I like to focus on a single bodypart, two at the very most, per workout. You could workout chest twice a week, if you wanted (of course, don’t neglect to balance the rest of your physique).

Keep your carbs low and your protein and fat high and you should gain quite a bit of lean mass while only slowly gaining weight (you’ll be dropping fat and gaining muscle at the same time).

This should give you what you are looking for, if you do it right.

The only reason I said that, and in that tone, was because that kid has absolutely no business attempting to employ the help of the members of this site to fuck himself up. I’m being just as helpful to him as I am to you.

[quote]

My next step is to let the guy know that I’ll be needing nolva. If he can’t get it or doesn’t know what it is (he seems pretty dumb) then I’m just going to leave it. [/quote]

Hey man, if you are in Oz and have a legitimate source, you had better hold onto him tight! I hear they are not so easy to come by. Or, at least not at any reasonable prices.

i would go with cortes’ first suggestion…to the letter. its a ten week total cycle it kills me that people think he is going to blow up so rapidly that everyone will know…damn come on now

[quote]morepain wrote:
i would go with cortes’ first suggestion…to the letter. its a ten week total cycle it kills me that people think he is going to blow up so rapidly that everyone will know…damn come on now[/quote]

Honestly, this is what I really think, too. I mean, most people are so damned clueless, even the people who think they know about steroids, that they are going to assume you are on steroids even if you make natural gains slowly and just happen to have a good body.

If you are clearly changing things up in the gym and in your diet, AND if you are a personal trainer who should know how to bring about change in his body anyway, then you should be able to put on some muscle without a bunch of clients showing up one morning with pee cups in their hands.

[quote]Sxio wrote:

I wouldn’t say my results have been spectacular
[/quote]

me too

[quote]jasmincar wrote:
Sxio wrote:

I wouldn’t say my results have been spectacular

me too[/quote]

Go away. You’re a fool

holy shit 10 years to bench press body weight 4 times? before i even touched steroids in my first year i was benching 100 pounds over my body weight at the time (180lbs)

when people say shit like that it honestly makes me wonder, the fuck were you doing for 10 years

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
jasmincar wrote:
Sxio wrote:

I wouldn’t say my results have been spectacular

me too

Go away. You’re a fool [/quote]
alright then…

lol no

[quote]Aragorn wrote:
rrjc5488 wrote:
Sxio wrote:
we all have to start somewhere.

The stickies at the top of the steroid forum is a good place.

It’s clear you don’t have a clue about what you’re doing. Regarding drug use, or what you’re doing in the kitchen and in the gym, apparently.

I disagree. He’s been a contributing member of this website for a long time, and I have personally gleaned some good info from some of his posts.

Also, although I realize everyone should read the stickies before posting and I agree with that, I think long time vets of the board can get away with a little less, and should get away with it if they’re otherwise productive members and know good info. I feel like he’s been around for a long time and deserves a bit of a break. [/quote]

Fair enough. Sorry sxio.

If he could get his hands on some prop, wouldn’t 2 week on/2 week off protocol work well for him? (given the fact he doesn’t want to blow up.)

[quote]Cortes wrote:
morepain wrote:
i would go with cortes’ first suggestion…to the letter. its a ten week total cycle it kills me that people think he is going to blow up so rapidly that everyone will know…damn come on now

Honestly, this is what I really think, too. I mean, most people are so damned clueless, even the people who think they know about steroids, that they are going to assume you are on steroids even if you make natural gains slowly and just happen to have a good body.

If you are clearly changing things up in the gym and in your diet, AND if you are a personal trainer who should know how to bring about change in his body anyway, then you should be able to put on some muscle without a bunch of clients showing up one morning with pee cups in their hands.[/quote]

I agree with this actually. And most people are willing to believe a plausible sounding explanation from a trainer regarding changes in diet (carbs) or training, or whatever.

Cortes, I’ve been taking a break from posting so much. I hang around PWI somewhat, the Cell, but my computer hard drive broke recently so I haven’t been around as much as usual. Also, I’m just not seeing that much that really interests me in posting quite as much right now. That’s one of the reasons that I’m posting more in PWI over the past 6 months or so. I go in phases :slight_smile:

[quote]rrjc5488 wrote:

If he could get his hands on some prop, wouldn’t 2 week on/2 week off protocol work well for him? (given the fact he doesn’t want to blow up.)[/quote]

Actually, this is a very good idea. If slower but consistent gains are your style (or if you’re really super worried about colleagues), then this could be a really good idea. Drop in the dbol for the last 3-4 days of each 2 week phase, then go off. This might fit the bill nicely.

If this were the plan you go with, it might work really well with a phased volume plan—2 weeks of higher volume, 1 week of low volume but high intensity strength oriented (the 1st off week), and then one down week (before you go back on).

i still will never understand the concept of “i really want to do steroids but don’t wnat to get too big” … umm so don’t bother doing steroids at all…you will save money and be assured that you won’t get “too big”.