Considering First Cycle at Age 45. Will this Do Anything?

Pharma / TRT
1

I’m getting older now at 45, but I keep in good shape. I’ve lifted on and off for past 6 years; nothing major, but I have decent athletic shape and six pack with some minor belly fat. While in the US I always considered trying steroids except for the issues of getting it and high costs; so I did clean eating, ZMA, proper training, pre/post nutrition, etc to good shape.

I moved to Eastern Europe/Russian part of the world about 3 years ago and have not trained the same as I got married and had a couple children. Here test-depo (cypionate) and nolvadex is available at nearly every pharmacy very cheap with no prescription. Test Depo (1 mL - 250mg) is $2.60 and Nolvadex (30 x 10mg) is $3.15. So, I am considering doing some very mild, short cycles and get back to proper training to see where I can take myself. I did massive reading in the past, and just reeducated myself over the past few weeks. I am looking for modest improvements to occur little by little with each cycle with minimal side effects. I read the average healthy male creates about 40-50mg of usable test per week, so I wanted to double that for starters.

Short Cycle:
2 x 1mL (500mg total) Test Depo: $5.20
Day 01: 50mg Test
Day 02-23: 20mg Test
Subcutaneous Daily Injection (30g needle): 140mg/wk; net - 100ishmg/wk after oils
PCT:
30 x 10mg Nolvadex: $3.15 (15 = $1.625)
Day 24-30: Nothing (1 week wait for 50% test to be out of system)
Day 30-44: 10mg Nolvadex Daily
Day 45-60: Nothing

Day 61: Start again…

I know this is so little…will I get anything from it?
I figure I can always increase next cycle and would rather start low than high.
Thoughts?

2

There are far more knowledgeable guys on here than me, I’m still pretty new. But this looks like it would cause havoc on your hormones. Test C won’t even reach peak levels in 3 weeks, then you want to stop and run PCT, then run a second cycle way too quickly after. You’re putting your body through a rollercoaster of shutting down your natural Test production, barely putting enough Test in your system, and then cutting the cycle way short. Seems like you would do more harm than good, and I doubt you’d make any progress.

I’m sure others will chime in.

3

First step would be to get blood work done to see where your natural test numbers are. Get a full blood panel, CBC, lipids, hormones, etc. Hormones should include, Total Test, Free Test, SHBG, and maybe E2.

I am running TrT at 100mgs a week and that puts me into the high 800’s for T levels. I divide my shot into 50mgs every 3.5 days. I bumped my dose up to 200mgs and that put me at high 1200’s.

I honestly dont think your protocol is going to be worth going through the ups and downs of shutting down your natural production. I think lab work will help you decide if you want to run a cycle or TrT which could be for life. If you want to run a Cycle, you could run it at the lower end of the the dosage and run 300mgs a week divided up into 2 shots. Most people on these forums would recommend starting dose of 500mgs a week, but it doesnt sound like you are trying to reach that high.

PCT- If running a cycle, should be started 2-3 weeks after last Test shot and should be 2 weeks of 40mgs every day, followed by 2 weeks of 20mgs every day of Nolvadex. You could choose to run TrT doses, then Blast at a higher dose in the future.

Have you ever injected before? I think injecting every single day is going to get old real fast. Not to mention this cycle is too short in time. You body will shut down natural test in 4-5 weeks from starting. BUT by that time, you cycle will be over.

KISS - Keep It Simple Stupid
Weeks 1-12 Test 300 -500mgs per week divided into 2 shots
Weeks 15-16 Nolvadex 40mgs every day
Weeks 17-18 Nolvadex 20mgs every day

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4

Like @newbvet said, get bloods. Then you should be considering a blast and cruise approach, if your natural levels are low enough (or if you just genuinely want to start on this path). But the layout your proposed will be a nightmare to manage.

5

I have not done blood work, and that is a good suggestion that I am researching where to get here. But I am fairly certain that I am not low T as I have no symptoms such as low sex drive, erections, motivation, energy, depression, etc. I have a 29 yo EE sexy yoga instructor wife that enjoys lots of physical contact and am basically retired and get plenty of sleep and still eat pretty well and workout (do not really lift hard anymore though) and still taking ZMA daily - so all that combined helps keep test up. Of course, the drive and energy is not quite the same as when I was 25 or 30…
I have tried most the legal ways to increase testosterone while in the US, and got decent results. Others noticed the change in my size and shape, so I have some ok genetics and dedication to put on muscle.
…But since

  1. I have cheap and legal access to test-depo and nolvadex now
  2. I was always curious what I could get to with a little extra help
  3. I’m 45 and probably 15ish% down from test peak levels and will only go down further
  4. My wife is very recently pregnant with 3rd child (just a few weeks along). We are planning to have 4 child, but not until 3rd child is 1.5-2 years old - so I have a window of about 2 years to do something and get back off before we try again. Of course, I do not want to permanently damage sperm production which is a concern.
  5. Since there is a possibility that we may one day move back to US, I do not want to be lifelong dependent on test since access/cost would change dramatically.
6

I’m not sure if links can be added (if not, please delete links!), but I what I read about various aspects of AAS lead me to first cycle I was suggesting. I was trying to take the “safest/minimalist” route for first cycle and wanting to be overly cautious without need of AI and least amount of sides and not destroying my long term ability to produce testosterone naturally - max gains was not not priority.
But maybe by combining several different things that I read separately and trying to put them all together, that was not a good idea either.

I read about safety of:

  1. doing short cycles
  2. starting first cycle on lower dosages and test only
  3. daily injections for more stable and less estrogen conversion; thus no need for AI.
  4. Nolvadex less sides than Clomid (I reread article and see my mistake about PCT schedule, but I was thinking short cycle on test = shorter PCT)
7

If short cycles like that worked well then more guys would use them and suggest them. They just don’t. You don’t build much muscle in three weeks. It takes time. The difference between three weeks and 12 weeks is so huge that it doesn’t even warrant discussing the former.

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8

Private MD Labs is who I use. Super easy and private and they take my Flex Spending Acct

9

I understand completely what you are saying. I think that the reduced KISS methos of 12 weeks 300mg/wk followed by Nolvadex PCT would be a good conservative start if I was 100% on starting the path of gains priority and less concerned about being lifelong on test or affect on future fertility.
So while I’m waiting to get blood work, I’m still reading. I am now also considering an AI + SERM for a 6-8 week cycle, since that may help increase/max my natural test and limit estrogen without risk of affecting fertility or dependence on test. It may not do much or maybe even nothing, but it seems to have little risk or cost and worth a try before taking the plunge into adding testosterone into the mix.

Here were a couple things I read here that peaked my interest:
"SERM increased my T AND E. To combat the increased E, take the AI with the SERM. I have tried this and gained a boost in natural T and normal levels of E. This is all determined by blood tests.

So, as far as my experience is concerned, a SERM + AI is goodness. An AI by itself, as suggested, is also good…but I think the combo is better.

50 mg Clomid (or 20 mg Novaldex)/day + 0.25 mg of Arimidex/day

I understand what you’re thinking with respect to possible overkill…and that’s what I thought. Until I actually tried the above protocol and compared it to just taking the Arimidex. The combo was definitely worth the increase in endogenous test with no increase (or substantial decrease) in estrogen (estrodiol). This wasn’t just qualitative assessment; this was from my very real bloodwork."

"Hey, I had some extra Nolvadex from genpharm and for some reason I wanted to see how it would work if taken alone without exercise.

I had a 2 week vacation coming up and figured that would be the best time to check it out. When I say no exercise I mean NO exercise; sitting around, eating crap, smoking crap, just great. But I took 20mg for about 10 days. I felt an increase in libido, but since I didn’t have a scale or calipers I couldn’t do any measurements the whole time I was gone.

When I returned I measured my self first thing in the morning after ‘evacuating’ and found that I had stayed the same weight and lost a bit over a percent in body fat. Measured again later and then the next morning and found the same results.

I wasn’t working out, doing cardio…shit I barely walked farther than the beach or the kitchen for 2 weeks and not only did I stay in shape but I leaned out some too. Pretty badass if you ask me."

10

An AI on its own is profoundly stupid. I know people do that, but people also think crystals have healing powers and that their zodiac sign determines what they should do during the day. People are fucking morons. So just taking an AI should be a nonstarter for you. Don’t be one of the crystal people.

As far as taking a SERM instead of testosterone… I mean, those anecdotes you posted are interesting if they were written 15 years ago. Clomid monotherapy has been around for a while and doctors sometimes go that route if they want to approach a low t patient who isn’t quite ready for full blown trt. But unless you have low t you won’t get much benefit from that sort of protocol. The reason guys take large amounts of testosterone is because having supraphysiological levels is conducive to enhanced recovery and outsized muscle growth. If your t is normal then adding in a SERM monotherapy will just make you a higher version of normal. You won’t get much out of it that you couldn’t get out of a better diet and better training. If you want results beyond what your body can naturally do then you need doses that push your testosterone higher than it would naturally make.

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11

Crystal people :rofl: haha
No lie was just talking about crystal idiots last night on the couch with my wife. Glad I’m not the only one who thinks they’re about as smart as the folks wanting to storm Area 51.