T Nation

Conservative Cycle? (Please Advise)


Age 24
weight 200 lbs
experience 6 years

squat 405x3
bench 245x3
deadlift 400x2

Weeks 1-12
Test Sustanon: 306 mg weekly
(approx .5 cc of kalpa 350 sustanon every 4 days)
Primobolan: 157.5 mg weekly
(approx .9 cc of Balkan Primo every 4 days)
Anavar: 20 mg Daily
Arimidex: 250mcg EOD

PCT weeks 13-17
PCT is liquid from peptide company
Nolvadex 20 mg daily
Comid 50 mg daily

Is this too much?


it’s nice to see a cycle with conservative doses, but I doubt you’ll see much benefit from the primo at that dose.

Why not just run 500mg test?


500 test increases water rentention.
but mainly primo and var have less androgen activity. high anabolic, but nothing to mess with my mind state.
does that make sense, or is that backwards?


yeah, I mean that’s all fair enough I guess. Just that primo’s not all that strong and you’re taking a pretty tiny dose. And I’ve never really understood why people fear a little water retention, but whatevs.

Having said all that, you’re still using half a gram of AAS so it’s not like nothing’ll happen.

I’ll be interested to hear how it works out for you.


You dont need both clomid and nolva. Its not necessary to stack them. But no, its not too much


why are you trying to avoid water retention? I can see very few instances (I don’t think I can imagine any, to be honest, aside from maybe some form of endurance sport?), where the increase in water retention from 300 to 500 test would be any concern. The difference, in the real world, will be negligible.

Also, what is your current test level? have you gotten bloodwork? I sure as hell wouldn’t run this proposed cycle if your test is already high. It won’t be worth it.

You posted your ‘big 3 lifts’, so I assume strength is something you’re trying to improve with this cycle? Just trying to get an idea of your goals. I don’t think you’ve come up with very good ideas here.

Also, scrap your PCT. You did that wrong. Read more about PCT on this site. Yours is truly terrible.


bloodwork to come soon,

no strength is not my issue, but that gives me an understanding of where I am in my training in harmony with my weight and height.

Not really concerned with water retention as much as I’m concerned about androgens altering my mind state.

please educate me on why this would not work if my test levels were already high. I don’t understand? please and thank you.

What is wrong with the pct?
at such a small dose of test, with the var and primo not aromotizing i don’t think i’ll need to start high and taper down. I can just take one dose throughout of each compound.
I start the PCT about 1-2 weeks after the cycle after the stuff has left my system from the long half life.
I might not even need all 4 weeks of it.
i know i don’t need hcg. I know i used SERMS and not AI’s. I know i was an estrogen blocker and clomid to help reboot my testes.
What did I do wrong?


You don’t understand the mechanisms of the PCT drugs you’re using. The dosing is way too high, and only one SERM should be used, preferably Nolva, starting at 20mg and tapering off. Adding in the clomid on top of this is counterproductive, and will likely result in poorer recovery. You haven’t read enough on these drugs if you didn’t already know this. Your PCT is typical of people who just ask their friends, or read a few threads on the internet. You can do better than this.

As for your cycle in general… I didn’t say this wouldn’t work, I said it wouldn’t be worth it. There is a difference. During your cycle, you will have the potential to gain more muscle than you did previously, but your Testosterone will drop to sub-optimal levels just prior to and during PCT. This always has a deleterious effect on muscular gains, and the NET EFFECT of the cycle, long-term, will not justify the use of the drugs.

The other problem is the potential for a less than full recovery following PCT. So let’s say your starting point, prior to using steroids, is 900 T. That would be on the higher end of normal. It would be very good. Oftentimes, a full recovery is not made, and your new T level, going forward, could be more like 600-700. Is that drop going to be worth it, to you? It wouldn’t be to me. It won’t necessarily happen, but it often happens. IMO, the risk does not justify the minimal reward. But of course, it’s your own call.


thanks for the help and the response. Honestly I appreciate it.
what do you think of pinning every 3 days instead of 4 to yield 400 test 200 primo?


400 is not bad. I think that’s substantially better than 300. I’m not familiar enough with Primo dosing to really give you a good answer on that. It’s not something I’ve ever considered using.


thanks for the help bro. no disrespect.