[quote]pushharder wrote:
Wondering why this “gauge” vexes Muf (and maybe TB to a lesser degree) so much. It’s a gauge – one of several things to be used to gauge a politician’s record.
Every voter can’t have coffee with every politician. Relax, collect the data from the various gauges, and assess. What’s the big deal?[/quote]
I see what you’re saying, Brother…and I don’t disagree.
But it seems like this voting record is being used as more than just “a” gauge…but as “the” gauge (in many, not all) cases to not only rank, but pick, a candidate.
Is it better or worse than any other measure?
As I stated earlier, it probably is “worse” because of the myriad of reasons that a Senator of Congressman Votes on resolutions and Bills.
[quote]pushharder wrote:
Wondering why this “gauge” vexes Muf (and maybe TB to a lesser degree) so much. It’s a gauge – one of several things to be used to gauge a politician’s record.
Every voter can’t have coffee with every politician. Relax, collect the data from the various gauges, and assess. What’s the big deal?[/quote]
I see what you’re saying, Brother…and I don’t disagree.
But it seems like this voting record is being used as more than just “a” gauge…but as “the” gauge (in many, not all) cases to not only rank, but pick, a candidate.
Is it better or worse than any other measure?
As I stated earlier, it probably is “worse” because of the myriad of reasons that a Senator of Congressman Votes on resolutions and Bills.
Mufasa[/quote]
You do realize that the left tracks voting records regarding dems right?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
“Moderate purity” is a contradiction in terms. Whatever the definition of a moderate party, a necessary (but not sufficient) condition of such a party is that it doesn’t operate by way of litmus test politics.
But I don’t think there is really such a thing. Parties organize around principles, and “being moderate” is more a function of behavior rather than belief.[/quote]
Oh, I think you get it too, my friend. In your eyes your “behavior function” of “being moderate” is seen as loftier. It’s OK.
I get it too. It irks you that some see their conservatism as loftier than your moderate take on things.
If I were you I’d just look for politicians that hover around that 50% mark to laud. See, it can work for you too.[/quote]
Well, no, but you’re too worried about “irks” me or what you think is the question behind the question.
We’re not talking about what “irks” me and what doesn’t. So, if you don’t mind, consider breaking this habit you have of entering a thread and shitting the bed with a bunch of irrelevant nonsense, and instead focusing on just offering good faith takes on the topic being discussed.
[quote]thunderbolt2. The warwrote:
So, a Republican votes for a tax raise to help pay for a war. Does that up his conservative score? Or reduce it?[/quote]
Does he propose spending cuts to at least help offset the costs of the war?[/quote]
For purposes of this hypo, let’s say no. The war with China is a big, conventional one and is going to cost a lot over a considerable perod of time. And the bill just moves up income tax rates to help pay for it.
[quote]thunderbolt2. The warwrote:
So, a Republican votes for a tax raise to help pay for a war. Does that up his conservative score? Or reduce it?[/quote]
Does he propose spending cuts to at least help offset the costs of the war?[/quote]
For purposes of this hypo, let’s say no. The war with China is a big, conventional one and is going to cost a lot over a considerable perod of time. And the bill just moves up income tax rates to help pay for it.[/quote]
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Barry Goldwater would probably call someone a traitor for not voting to raise revenue to pay for a war, but modern “conservatives” certainly don’t think way, from what I see.[/quote]
Perhaps not a traitor, but certainly an idiot. IMO…modern conservatives reflect little of the ideology the movement’s origins were based on. A bit like modern feminists.
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Someone on another thread posted a website the “scored” GOPers (officially declared candidates for the presidency as well as other notables, like Boehner). The scoring was expressed as a percentage, as in 96% conservative or 65% conservative. The American Conservative Union has something similar.
A question I posed is this: say the USA goes to war with China (and there’s no dispute over whether we shoukd have gone or anything like that). Big war, very expensive. A Democrat submits a bill to raise taxes to pay for the war. A Republican votes in favor of the bill.
Does/should that Republican get scored “up” or “down” on his conservative bona fides for that vote?[/quote]
A large scale war like that changes things significantly. You cannot overly a peacetime paradigm in a time of large scale war.
Can you tell me more about the war? Who started it? Is the homeland under attack or is it a foreign war? What’s the state of the military right before the war? What’s the economy like in your scenario?
[quote]thunderbolt2. The warwrote:
So, a Republican votes for a tax raise to help pay for a war. Does that up his conservative score? Or reduce it?[/quote]
Does he propose spending cuts to at least help offset the costs of the war?[/quote]
For purposes of this hypo, let’s say no. The war with China is a big, conventional one and is going to cost a lot over a considerable perod of time. And the bill just moves up income tax rates to help pay for it.[/quote]
I think that would lower his score. [/quote]
The more I think about it, the more I think you’re right. Although I find that puzzling.
Do you think it would make a difference if the bill was sponsored by a Republican, and not a Democrat?
[quote]thunderbolt23 wrote:
Someone on another thread posted a website the “scored” GOPers (officially declared candidates for the presidency as well as other notables, like Boehner). The scoring was expressed as a percentage, as in 96% conservative or 65% conservative. The American Conservative Union has something similar.
A question I posed is this: say the USA goes to war with China (and there’s no dispute over whether we shoukd have gone or anything like that). Big war, very expensive. A Democrat submits a bill to raise taxes to pay for the war. A Republican votes in favor of the bill.
Does/should that Republican get scored “up” or “down” on his conservative bona fides for that vote?[/quote]
A large scale war like that changes things significantly. You cannot overly a peacetime paradigm in a time of large scale war.
Can you tell me more about the war? Who started it? Is the homeland under attack or is it a foreign war? What’s the state of the military right before the war? What’s the economy like in your scenario?[/quote]
Good questions. Yeah, the point was to distinguish a big war from our modern skirmishes.
Let’s say it’s not a war on the homeland (yet) and is in the Pacific theater, say for control over countries that are allies (I.e., other countries have been invaded in the conventional sense). We have fully deployed naval groups, air power, and troops. Conventional military assets versus military assets scenario (as distinguished from asymmetric warfare with terror groups and uncertainty about sovereign roles).
Just for fun, least assume Russia has allied with China and is contributing military assets against our side. Big war.
[quote]thunderbolt2. The warwrote:
So, a Republican votes for a tax raise to help pay for a war. Does that up his conservative score? Or reduce it?[/quote]
Does he propose spending cuts to at least help offset the costs of the war?[/quote]
For purposes of this hypo, let’s say no. The war with China is a big, conventional one and is going to cost a lot over a considerable perod of time. And the bill just moves up income tax rates to help pay for it.[/quote]
I think that would lower his score. [/quote]
The more I think about it, the more I think you’re right. Although I find that puzzling.
Do you think it would make a difference if the bill was sponsored by a Republican, and not a Democrat?
[/quote]
Hmmm? Probably, though it shouldn’t. I guess that would depend on the group doing the scoring.
[quote]thunderbolt2. The warwrote:
So, a Republican votes for a tax raise to help pay for a war. Does that up his conservative score? Or reduce it?[/quote]
Does he propose spending cuts to at least help offset the costs of the war?[/quote]
For purposes of this hypo, let’s say no. The war with China is a big, conventional one and is going to cost a lot over a considerable perod of time. And the bill just moves up income tax rates to help pay for it.[/quote]
I think that would lower his score. [/quote]
The more I think about it, the more I think you’re right. Although I find that puzzling.
Do you think it would make a difference if the bill was sponsored by a Republican, and not a Democrat?
[/quote]
Hmmm? Probably, though it shouldn’t. I guess that would depend on the group doing the scoring.
[/quote]
Agree. And I think such a (likely) view among the scorers that conservatism is, at its base, little more than an anti-tax political philosophy.
The conservative position is to pay for what you’re spending. The conservative position should never be seen as anti-tax. Despite disagreeing with what we’re spending the money on, conservatives should be the ones demanding WE, THIS GENERATION demanding or at least putting up with the spending, pay for it ourselves. No matter what. That’s good stewardship. That’s conservatism.