Ger, Belz, Toldos Avrohom Yitzchok, Satmar and Neturei Karta.
All anti-Zionist(although some are just against 'religious Zionism' = they don't believe Israel can be re-established until the coming of the Messiah) - Neturei Karta particularly extreme. Neturei anthem was being sung by the anti-Zionist rioters at Beit Shemesh.
The English-language press in Israel (e.g., Haaretz) has a tremendous hard-on for religious Jewish people, and spreads crap all the time.
There are all sorts of "Haredi" (the black hat religious folk). For example, me. Each group is independant of one another.
For whatever reason, all Haredi get lumped together by the press, just like all Christians get lumped together with the assholes at soldier's funerals. This is a mistake.
I served in the IDF. I've also had a bunch of kiddos (6 and counting). All my adult (read: draft age teenagers) daughters served in the IDF, in combat units. One, in fact, had a movie made about the experience. All have, are, or will be shortly persuing university degrees at Ivy League or better (MIT) colleges/unis. The idea we are some sort of Israeli Taliban is just stupid.
There are, indeed, some whacko Haredim. Just like there are whackos all around the world.
Thanks for clarifying. My comments were specifically about Haredi engaged in subversive activities like NK of course. Do you see these current problems as part of the effort to undermine the state or is it more to do with religious/political matters which are unrelated to that?
A simple fact of life that most people are unable to grasp even when you carefully explain it to them is this. The modern, liberated, women of today who thanks to modern contraceptives are so happy to be liberated from their traditional role as a baby maker and house keeper aren't having more than one or two kids. So they are barely replacing themselves or the men who are cool with them being liberated like that.
On the other hand, women from rigid, traditional, religiously orthodox, backgrounds are shitting out kids left and right so they have 5, 10, 15, 20 kids. If they bring their kids up to think the same way they do, how could this disparity not eventually cause a shift in demographics? It is inevitable.
We see this happening not just in Israel, we see it happening in the muslim countries as well. Look at how Turkey has become steadily more fundamentalist. People need to wake up.
I agree with you entirely. And I like the way the Haredi are bringing Jews back to their religion. What concerns me is that this appears - to me as an outsider - to be some sort of power struggle of the virulently subsersive fringe elements/offshoots that actually want to undermine the security and safety of the state.
Exactly. This is what happened in Lebanon, where the high birth rate of the Shia, coupled with the fact that the Christians are emigrating in large numbers, upset the traditional tripartite Shia - Sunni - Maronite Christian political landscape.
Couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, whenever some conservative religious group/organized religion/theocratic structure attempts to "protect the women" or some similar measure to "enforce morality", some sexually frustrated repressed assholes take this as a licence to assault and threaten women and to despicable crap in general. Regardless whether they're Jewish, Muslim of Christian.
Case in point - Saudi Arabia, Pakistan and the vast majority of Muslim countries...
So I'm not exactly sure you can push non-observance on people as much as you can push observance onto people...
My observations were more general in nature and not intended to single out any particular religion. Now that you have me thinking about it, all the Orthodox Jews I have known on a personal level were men.
Although I did live with a woman who was raised conservative Jewish and went to Akiva school when she was young. Personally I think that played a role in her turning traif and chasing shiksas later in life...
Most secular groups are interested in fighting against religious privilege, not religion itself. Sure there are idiotic secular causes, I've pointed them out myself. But there are crazies across the board just like you pointed out.
Edit: I could post counter examples if you'd like.