T Nation

Cons of Staying On?

what are the Cons/negatives about staying on, Cruise and Blasting? i feel much better while on, my sex drive is more compatible with my current relationship and im much stronger, recover better and look better… so whats the price i pay for this? do i become sterile? i know i’ll need to donate blood to drop some RBC’s. lets hear it…

Ty

Sterility is a possibilty although you can take steps to prevent this namely a hCG regimen.
Other then sterility there is the possibility of cardiac hypertrophy, blood vessel thickening and cholesterol imbalances.

Having said that though most of these problems can be avoided by adhering to a safe use scheme (cruising as long as your blasts for example).
And also consider cost and prospective life-long pinning in TRT.

SB

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:
Sterility is a possibilty although you can take steps to prevent this namely a hCG regimen.
Other then sterility there is the possibility of cardiac hypertrophy, blood vessel thickening and cholesterol imbalances.

Having said that though most of these problems can be avoided by adhering to a safe use scheme (cruising as long as your blasts for example).
And also consider cost and prospective life-long pinning in TRT.

SB[/quote]

-permanent sterility has never happened from aas, with or without hcg.
-take curcumin and coq10 and keep your blood pressure in check to avoid cardiac hypertrophy
-avoid using orals and have a very clean and solid diet to keep your cholesterol levels solid

if you B/C, you have to pay far closer attention to your health markers (blood pressure, c-reactive protein, liver values, liver ultrasounds, EKG’s etc.)

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

-permanent sterility has never happened from aas, with or without hcg.

[/quote]

Never? Is that right?

SB

[quote]Mr. Walkway wrote:

-take curcumin and coq10 and keep your blood pressure in check to avoid cardiac hypertrophy
-avoid using orals and have a very clean and solid diet to keep your cholesterol levels solid

if you B/C, you have to pay far closer attention to your health markers (blood pressure, c-reactive protein, liver values, liver ultrasounds, EKG’s etc.)

[/quote]

Said ‘safe use’ regimens. Thanks to Walkway for elaborting.

SB

whats considered a cruise dosage… some i know cruise on 400mg Test e…

[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
whats considered a cruise dosage… some i know cruise on 400mg Test e…[/quote]

I would say the average is 200-500mg per week cruise

Damnit I’ve been wondering the same thing for years! Subscribed to the thread

it’s the fertility thing that puts me off. I know Walkway says it has never happened but I’ve been on a few boards where guys have blamed their infertility on TRT.

My mrs puts up with the steroid use just fine, but if it made me infertile I think that’d be s step too far. A BIG fucking step too far.

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:

[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
whats considered a cruise dosage… some i know cruise on 400mg Test e…[/quote]

I would say the average is 200-500mg per week cruise[/quote]

and a blast on test E could be around 700mg?
What about arimidex, could i still use that while blasting and cruising
how long is a blast? 6 weeks, than cruise 6?

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:

[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
whats considered a cruise dosage… some i know cruise on 400mg Test e…[/quote]

I would say the average is 200-500mg per week cruise[/quote]

They may think they are cruising, but that is in no way a safe “cruise” dosage. For example, hematocrit and RBC count are likely to become problems sooner rather than later on those doses and cardiac hypertrophy has been seen in studies at sustained usage of doses of 200 mg already. Imagining that you can prevent these problems with curcumin and other supps is fantasy.

A safe cruise would be TRT doses of around 100 mg.

[quote]seekonk wrote:

[quote]tattoo’d’popeye wrote:

[quote]ty_ty13 wrote:
whats considered a cruise dosage… some i know cruise on 400mg Test e…[/quote]

I would say the average is 200-500mg per week cruise[/quote]

They may think they are cruising, but that is in no way a safe “cruise” dosage. For example, hematocrit and RBC count are likely to become problems sooner rather than later on those doses and cardiac hypertrophy has been seen in studies at sustained usage of doses of 200 mg already. Imagining that you can prevent these problems with curcumin and other supps is fantasy.

A safe cruise would be TRT doses of around 100 mg. [/quote]

this is true, however cardiac hypertrophy can be both normal and bad… depends on what kind it is so stay in contact with your cardiologist.

a true trt cruise dose is between 70-100mg a week of test E/C, however ive seen cruises that exceed 1g of test a week + light orals…

everyone is genetically different in how their body will tolerate these drugs… for instance I have run a gram of test and some tren and my blood pressure was 108/70. My buddy ran half a gram of test and he became hypertensive.

besides consistency, discipline, and food… the amount of drugs you take will determine how well you do in the sport. The top pros don’t have these amazing incredible genetics… sure the top ones have good shapes to their muscles etc… but what sets them apart from the rest is their ability to tolerate drugs…

it’s a fact… not one many want to believe though.

dorian yates sure as fuck took more than he claimed to, and dexter does take more than 200mg of masteron a week (lol).

Nasser apparently said on the radio (after he retired) that he ran around 5g of test… 5g… of just test, not including other aas, hgh, and insulin…

hope this puts things in perspective.

also, there has NEVER been a single recorded case of constant aas use causing permanent sterility… the key word there is PERMANENT.

sure, it can make it hard as fuck for some people… they may have to go through fertility therapy with hcg (for lh), hmg (for fsh), clomid, and a small number of other things to regain their ability to have a kid… but it’s never been impossible unless they were completely infertile from the get go (before aas)

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
it’s the fertility thing that puts me off. I know Walkway says it has never happened but I’ve been on a few boards where guys have blamed their infertility on TRT.

My mrs puts up with the steroid use just fine, but if it made me infertile I think that’d be s step too far. A BIG fucking step too far.[/quote]

This.
Couldnt have put it any better. Also the trend I have seen is that of many miscarriages even if they have managed to impregnate their wife/girlfriend/victim. And maybe just a coincidence but the ones that have (after many meds) concieved, seem to produce only girls… Hmmm.

SB

Interesting thread. I’ve ALWAYS gone completely off. But as I’m much older now, I wonder if cruising at 100-200mg would be better. For results I’m sure, I mean in an overall sense.

I can say that while quality of life is much lower off cycle, I do somehow feel healthier, in a way that I can’t really describe. Let’s not fool ourselves and think there’s no price to pay - thought that price is hard to figure out precisely. And it’s also a pride thing. I don’t want to be dependent on outside drugs all the time.

And come on, don’t call it blast and cruise if your cruise is 400+ mg a week! That’s being full on all the time, with more gear at certain times. I would cruise at 100-200mg max. Basically get your systems beside the HTPA back to normal before going full blast again.

I’ve had kids already but who knows what the future holds? I had planned to get married at 50 with a 18 yo and have kids by then :slight_smile: Seems my GF had other plans LOL

And yes donating blood, HCG, taking supplements that limit damage, etc. is mandatory.

so what exactly is the point of HCG?

HCG keeps your balls “alive”. When one is on TRT or never-ending cycles, the balls can actually become atrophied, and lifeless over time. Look at the TRT stickies for more on this (and many posts in this forum too).

My last cycle was the first time I’ve used HCG, and just wow at my recuperation this time. And I didn’t think my balls shrank that much on cycle, but having them full this time showed me I had be deluding myself. And I don’t know if it’s my imagination, but my balls were also very pleasantly sensitive on cycle LOL A much appreciated benefit.

[quote]Singhbuilder wrote:

[quote]rds63799 wrote:
it’s the fertility thing that puts me off. I know Walkway says it has never happened but I’ve been on a few boards where guys have blamed their infertility on TRT.

My mrs puts up with the steroid use just fine, but if it made me infertile I think that’d be s step too far. A BIG fucking step too far.[/quote]

This.
Couldnt have put it any better. Also the trend I have seen is that of many miscarriages even if they have managed to impregnate their wife/girlfriend/victim. And maybe just a coincidence but the ones that have (after many meds) concieved, seem to produce only girls… Hmmm.

SB[/quote]

Yeah it’s a worry. Even if you can reverse the damage with HMG, clomid etc., the threads I’ve read where people have done that it’s taken years, and that seems like the sort of thing that would put a HUGE strain on a relationship.

[quote]SwD wrote:
Interesting thread. I’ve ALWAYS gone completely off. But as I’m much older now, I wonder if cruising at 100-200mg would be better. For results I’m sure, I mean in an overall sense.

I can say that while quality of life is much lower off cycle, I do somehow feel healthier, in a way that I can’t really describe. Let’s not fool ourselves and think there’s no price to pay - thought that price is hard to figure out precisely. And it’s also a pride thing. I don’t want to be dependent on outside drugs all the time.

And come on, don’t call it blast and cruise if your cruise is 400+ mg a week! That’s being full on all the time, with more gear at certain times. I would cruise at 100-200mg max. Basically get your systems beside the HTPA back to normal before going full blast again.

^^^ this

Im on TRT and most on TRT seem to be around 100-200mg tops for long term healthy use… 500-600mg of test is pretty much cycle strength so 400mg cant be good long term… I’ve run 400mg so I know how good it feels but more than a few months is probably not wise. If your gonna run that much test and your reason is to have a great sex life consider HCG becuase on that much test you will want to bang constintally and your balls will be the size of raisens… I like running HCG and take 2 ZMA at night this way if you bang alot your nuts dont shrink and you shoot nice loads…

my balls are as big as they’ve ever been… which was never really that big to begin with… lol

a guy on another board I post on was blasting and cruising for 10 years and knocked up his wife without even trying… is he typical? Maybe, maybe not… ive read a number of very similar reports

and yes, a lot of baby girls