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Confused on Protein Consumption

For the past 2-3 weeks i’ve been noting down how much protein i take daily in an attempt to get it up to 1.5-2g/lb of bodyweight, following what seems to be the standard amount recommended by most. (i’m currently 170lbs, gym 5x/week plus conditioning) i’ve hit 280-300g these past 5 days. at the same time, i’ve been trying to read up about protein consumption, looking up threads etc. H/w, i can’t come to a conclusion whether i’m going in the right direction.

also the phrase “there’s no such thing as overtraining, only undereating” could someone explain this as i dont wanna take it the wrong way. (not trolling, just wanna learn)

So how am i doing? should i continue upping protein intake? or just stick to about 1.5g/body weight?

**confused as ive seen people heavier than me taking in lesser i.e( http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/too_much_protein_16?id=4876668&pageNo=0 )

sample diet:
breakfast- 5 eggs + 3 slices wholemeal toast + 1 scoop whey
after gym: 2 scoops whey
lunch- 300g chicken fillet + potato/air cooked fries(yum!)
snack: milk + 3 eggs + almonds
dinner: same as lunch
pre-bed: one scoop caesin

total approx: 280g protein

***goals are to get stronger, better, faster(for basketball) not really concerned about bulking/cutting. though i would like to be at about 80kg/176lbs as i feel that it’s good for the position i play. (i’m 178cm/5.8ft)

****yes, ive been through the threads and used the searched engine. (:

People may disagree with what I have to say but, here:

There is such a thing as over training even when eating in a surplus. Eating is not going to stop your CNS from getting burned out if you are training very heavy very frequently with no plans of deloading etc. On a typical hypertrophy split in the 10-12 rep ranges…you may not experience over training to that degree and can go more by feel. With strength training in the much lower rep ranges…you tend to need to have a strategy laid out for some time to come. When you look at well designed programs like 5/3/1 etc…the deloading is already planned for in advance before you even start the program. That said…food is still important and you want to be eating optimally for your macro/calorie needs in regards to your goals.

On to the protein consumption…I really, genuinely do not see any reason to eat more than 1g/lb of BW for a natural athlete unless you just PREFER protein from a satiety standpoint and want to add extra calories from more protein. But, don’t think that going into the 1.5g/lb or 2g/lb range is going to make an anabolic difference so to speak inherently due to the protein. Not going to happen. In fact, if you are looking to add more calories and want to be in a greater surplus, increase performance etc…I suggest you keep protein at around 1g/lb and up your carbs.

In my opinion…carbs are the variable where as fats and protein should be somewhat fixed. I.e. …I don’t like to let my fats drop below 0.45g/lb of bw…or say for an arbitrary figure, around 20% of my overall caloric intake. As said above, I keep protein at 1g/lb and for the additional calories I need…more carbs. Anyone here that says that keeping a surplus with fat and keeping carbs low because they “don’t respond to carbs” do not understand basic human physiology and biochemistry. In a caloric surplus, you tend to store fat due to your dietary fat intake being stored as such DUE to being in a surplus (NOT because fat is inherently bad). If you keep fat at the minimal EFA requirements (say 0.45g/lb) and increase calories VIA carbs…you are much less likely to store bodyfat than doing it the other way around. I assure you this on basic science. De nova lipogenesis is not really likely to happen. NOW…you will gain more water weight and scale weight and THINK you’re gaining fat because of the nature of carbohydrates and how they can pull water and due to increased glycogen stores…but, you aren’t getting fat. Plus…you get the benefits of insulin being elevated more, which definitely has an anti-catabolic effect…allowing the net protein balance at the end of the day to more likely fall in your favor.

So…round about explanation to say: keep protein at 1g/lb for the most part, keep fat fixed at 0.45g/lb…and increase or decrease calories depending on your goals with carbohydrates.

Will need to see your training schedule to give you an accurate assesment. Although if your playing basketball and doing conditioning you should probably be eating a bit more than you are. I would swap the toast for some oatmeal and berries. Dont you eat vegetables besides potato?

Related; what are those air cooked fries like? Do you use any oil at all?

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facko: thanks for the insight! (: alot of veterens do recommend the 1.5-2g though and it seems to work for them. hopefully someone will input on that and maybe address what you said.

yea, im doing strength training, trying a “deload” week now. keeping weights at the 5 rep range and decreasing intensity and volume for assistance (i.e 60kg > 30kg. 8-10 total sets > 3 sets)

thebird: http://www.philips.com.au/c/home-cooking/viva-collection-low-fat-fryer-multicooker-white-hd9220_40/prd/
air cooker is pretty awesome, i don’t think it uses any air at all. so i can still statisfy my craving for fries.

training schedule:
sat: Chest(bench), Shoot-around 200 made shots
sun: Lower body + back (deadlift), some acceleration work, shooting(as above), pickup game in the evening
mon: rest
tue: Shoulders (OHP), shooting, acceleration work + light conditioning, *maybe pickup game
wed: Back (weighted pullups), shooting
thurs: Lower body (squats), acceleration work + light conditioning, shooting
fri: rest, pickup game

Disagree that there is no point in going over 1g protein per lb BW. DC guys are big on 2x per lb BW, yes even the natty’s. I myself did noticeably better going from 250g to 300g and above, while keeping cals constant by dropping some carbs/fats. Yes, there obviously is a point of diminishing returns… My opinion.

It looks like all you’re eating is protein. Yeah, you have a couple egg yolks and 2 potatoes thrown in there but not nearly enough carbs/fats at a glance. What is your macro breakdown?

MAF: whats your bodyweight? just asking for comparison, since i seem to be taking in as much protein as you. you’re right, i may not be eating enough carbs/fats. i thought thered be enough with the milk, potatoes and toast. uhm, noob question, macro breakdown = how much carbs and fats too? i didnt count that.

[quote]facko wrote:
People may disagree with what I have to say but, here:

There is such a thing as over training even when eating in a surplus. Eating is not going to stop your CNS from getting burned out if you are training very heavy very frequently with no plans of deloading etc. On a typical hypertrophy split in the 10-12 rep ranges…you may not experience over training to that degree and can go more by feel. [/quote]

IME, the challenge of the higher rep ranges doesn’t have to do with CNS load, but instead joint integrity.

The mantra really should be that there’s no such thing as overtraining, only “underrecovering.” Time is a factor that is ultimately static, so there is some threshold point. But very few actually reach it, because the true limit would be something like, say, doing your workout and then spending the rest of the day napping/sleeping and eating.

There is next to no fiber in your diet.

[quote]LTKO wrote:
MAF: whats your bodyweight? just asking for comparison, since i seem to be taking in as much protein as you. you’re right, i may not be eating enough carbs/fats. i thought thered be enough with the milk, potatoes and toast. uhm, noob question, macro breakdown = how much carbs and fats too? i didnt count that.[/quote]

BW is ~ 210 BUT I would/should be eating much more but my thyroid has slowed my metabolism considerably.

Yes, post how many grams of carbs/fats you’re eating w/ the above.

[quote]LTKO wrote:
For the past 2-3 weeks i’ve been noting down how much protein i take daily in an attempt to get it up to 1.5-2g/lb of bodyweight, following what seems to be the standard amount recommended by most. (i’m currently 170lbs, gym 5x/week plus conditioning) i’ve hit 280-300g these past 5 days. at the same time, i’ve been trying to read up about protein consumption, looking up threads etc. H/w, i can’t come to a conclusion whether i’m going in the right direction.

also the phrase “there’s no such thing as overtraining, only undereating” could someone explain this as i dont wanna take it the wrong way. (not trolling, just wanna learn)

So how am i doing? should i continue upping protein intake? or just stick to about 1.5g/body weight?

**confused as ive seen people heavier than me taking in lesser i.e( http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/too_much_protein_16?id=4876668&pageNo=0 )

sample diet:
breakfast- 5 eggs + 3 slices wholemeal toast + 1 scoop whey
after gym: 2 scoops whey
lunch- 300g chicken fillet + potato/air cooked fries(yum!)
snack: milk + 3 eggs + almonds
dinner: same as lunch
pre-bed: one scoop caesin

total approx: 280g protein

***goals are to get stronger, better, faster(for basketball) not really concerned about bulking/cutting. though i would like to be at about 80kg/176lbs as i feel that it’s good for the position i play. (i’m 178cm/5.8ft)

****yes, ive been through the threads and used the searched engine. (:[/quote]

I’ve had 5 amateur fights, and have cut weight for all of them. While doing this, I’ve tried several diets, and diet approaches. So far, The Samurai Diet by Nate Miyaki is the book that has helped me the most

My most recent weight cut was the toughest (cut from 158 to 135, the last 10 lbs were dehydration, the rest was lost the ‘real’ way). I believe he has the better dietary approach for anaerobic athletes (i.e., MMA/BJJ competitors, wrestler, etc.)

^Relevance?

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
^Relevance?[/quote]

None other than to brag about how he’s an ultimate fighterzzz

I for one just prefer to fill in calories with carbs and protein. If lean pro sources werent so damn expensive i would eat even more. I am close to 2xbw or even more sometimes just because i love the stuff not becuase i think it will help with growth. Non fat greek yogurt chiken breasts (yea thats right i love those) lean pork, round steak, tuna. Yep love all that stuff. If you dont like it learn to cook. you dont have to add fat to those either to make them tastey.

ANyways i agree with Facko in the assesment. but it also is very personel. Personally i work better with higher carbs than higher fat. Some are the other way around. Try keep pro and fat constant and filing in with carbz and see how you feel. If that is working drop the carbs down and up the fat while keep pro the same.

(apologize for the spelling, rushing)

MAF: how much carbs should i be taking in with regards to my bw? pretty sure ill be able to keep track of the amount of carbs taken, but not the fat. :confused: but i always cook my food in olive oil, and also take in omega 3s. so healthy fat check?

tech: uhh…yea…i dont eat vegetables! D: my excuse is that dave tate/jim wendler(can’t remember which) doesn’t eat vegetables too. i’ve not eaten a veg since i was a kid? pretty much from 10+ or even slightly younger.

ryan: so you think fat isnt ideal?

thanks for the input so far! so far, id be cutting down protein to about 250-260g and increasing carbs at the same time. (i guess i was worried too much about taking in too much carbs)

Fat is ideal…but, in a strong surplus I tend to get the minimum EFA requirements and leave it at that. The way fat accumulation works is…typically in a caloric surplus, what is stored as fat is the dietary fat you’ve ingested. I’d never drop fat lower than 0.45g/lb of BW for the natty. It’s too pivotal for optimal hormone production.

Carbs are variable…there is no set number. Protein and fat can be safely set at grams per bodyweight figures…but, carbs depend on your caloric needs in my opinion. For what it is worth…I’m 5’8" 155-160…and I eat near 500 grams of carbs on days I train. I am fairly lean though…I dunno how lean you are…

[quote]facko wrote:

[quote]MAF14 wrote:
^Relevance?[/quote]
None other than to brag about how he’s an ultimate fighterzzz[/quote]
@ MAF14: Good catch, I even read his post and was like, wtf?

Thanks J, I try ;).

[quote]LTKO wrote:
MAF: how much carbs should i be taking in with regards to my bw? pretty sure ill be able to keep track of the amount of carbs taken, but not the fat. :confused: but i always cook my food in olive oil, and also take in omega 3s. so healthy fat check?
[/quote]

What is 'in check"? post actual numbers you plan to follow. BW really isnt a factor. It may play a role in your INDIVIDUAL metabolism but isn’t definitive.

Why wouldn’t you be able to count fat calories? Use anywhere from 1 tsp to 1 tbsp of oil to cook your chicken, deglaze the pan, poor it on the chicken and you have a sauce. Or on a grill, spray with PAM (although not the best choice for general health) and no calories to count.

YOU might not have to be so meticulous but I’m just making a point.

Olive oil oxidizes at medium-high heat. A better choice for fat, for frying and in general, would be Extra Virgin Coconut Oil. The vit shoppe actually has it pretty cheap if there is one near you.

Oh and read this thread:

http://tnation.T-Nation.com/free_online_forum/diet_performance_nutrition_supplements/modoks_nutrition_q_a?id=4950628&pageNo=0

It has a ton of good info and really not as long as it seems either. Just read the posts by MODOK.