T Nation

Confused and New to the Forum


#1

Finally joined the forum after lurking for years. Anyway, I have been on HRT for about 4 years now and I am 34 years old. I started with gels with my personal doctor and hated them (although 10g of testim did work to about 500 TT). Switched to shots every 2 weeks and thought this was great. Super easy and no worries/mess for my family to worry about. Primary Doc put me on different doses but we found after years of variations that 1.5cc every 2 weeks was the ticket for a 700 TT level for me. Then the Hematicrit problems started and I stayed at a 48 (?) on the bloodwork and we had to go back to 1cc every 2 weeks which didn't work. (please note this is before knowing about giving blood).

Step 2: 6 months ago I switched to an Endo and started from scratch my TT level was 80 after 3 weeks off testosterone. He tried a Testipel implant and it worked for 1 month and TT went to 310 then down to 220 after 2 months. He started me on shots if .5cc once a week (I was frustrated with this and explained my previous years dosage with my personal doctor....didn't matter to the Endo. He said all you get is .5cc every week and he told me he never gives more than 1cc every week regardless). I tried .5cc a week for 2 months and felt like total crap!!! I said screw it and went back to my personal doctor ( plus the Endo filed thanks different on my insurance and there for he was also very expensive for me).

Step 3 (current): My personal doctor put me back on 10g of Testim a day and I am starting on week 2. I absolutely hate this crap! I know it works for me but what a miserable daily procedure for using it. Plus, everyone I meet tells me " do you have on cologne or something?" My wife says it smells like body odor to her. I am certainly going back to shots.

My bloodwork on 1.5cc is taken on week 2 and minutes before getting my next shot. If my TT is 700 at the end of 2 weeks would my 1 week bloodwork be double that level? It sounds high but the strange thing 1.25cc has never got me over 450 even when bloodwork is taken at 1 week?

Should I try 1cc every week or go with 1.5cc every 2 weeks and give blood to control Hematicrit? I can deal with the up and down of every 2 weeks if I can stay at 1.5cc. Both my personal doctor and the Endo wouldn't touch HCT or anything past good old testosterone cyp. No other options are available in my area at the current time. I have no idea what my free level is but my PSA has never been an issue.

Any ideas? Thanks!!!!


#2

When you say 1cc what is that in mg? mg is a better measure since 1cc could have a lot of variation.

Sounds like you have not really felt good for any length of time. Any reason why shots only 1x every 2 weeks? You know that sucks right? Too many ups and downs with that protocol.

Injections should be at least twice weekly (better small doses more frequently than 1 large one)
Has your doctor also been monitoring your E2 levels? Do you have any blood work you can post up?
FT will also be important in all of this.


#3

I will try and find my last bloodwork or the one when I was on 1cc every 2 weeks. I go to the doctor for the shots once a week or every 2 weeks. The first time my wife tried it at home I completely blacked out immediately after the injection and she called 911 etc. So needless to say she wants me to have them done at the Doc. I live 30 minutes from my doctor so 1 time a week is probably something I could stick with. The up/down feeling with every 2 weeks was not great but not NEAR as bad as these stupid gels.

The dosage on my last script from Endo says 0.5 ML (200 mg) every week.

So I guess the dose is 0.5 ML and Not CC. My primary doctor uses CC for telling me what my dosage is???

Thanks!


#4

I found my last bloodwork prior to switching to the Endo but don't see E2? A bunch of things like MCHC, MCV, MCH, RDW, PLTC, MPV, lymph%, mono%, gran%, eos% etc.

However, I did ask for them to check Estrogen 3 months prior on the larger dose and was told it came back normal.

My total T on 1cc every 2 weeks was 1.53 ( scale was 1.75-7.81).


#5

This is at the end of a 2 week shot of 1cc of testosterone cyp.

WBC: 6.2. (range of scale 3.6-11.1)
RBC: 5.53 (4.27-5.49)
HGB: 16.5 (12.9-16.1)
HCT: 47.5 (37.7-46.5)
MCV: 86.0 (79.3-94.8)
MCH: 29.9 (26.8-33.2)
MCHC: 34.8 (33.5-35.5)
RDW: 13.0 (12.0-15.1)
PLTC: 275 (165-353)
MPV: 7.7 (7.5-10.7)
Lymph%: 42.4 (16.7-43.5)
Mono%: 6.4 (4.6-12.4)
Gran%: 47.7 (43.3-71.9)
Eos%: 3.2 (0.7-7.8)
Baso%: 0.3 (0.2-1.1)
Lymph#: 2.6 (1.1-2.7)
Mono#: 0.4 (0.3-0.8)
Grans#: 2.9 (1.9-7.2)
Eos#: 0.2 (0.0-0.5)
Baso#: 0.0 (0.0-0.1)

Total Testosterone = 1.53ng/ml (1.75-7.81)

My doctor said to just add 50 to my total T number for the scale and basically my total T is 200.

I know my hematocrit and rbc is high but what the heck does the rest of it mean?

Thanks!


#6

Read the stickies, lots of good info there. cc and ml are the same thing, both measures of fluid volume. They're not measures of the actual amount of medication you're injecting, since potency varies (all you're telling us is that you inject some quantity of oil). Milligrams is what we're looking for.

Shots every two weeks is a terrible schedule, you're subjecting your body to huge peaks and valleys in hormone levels. Once a week is still not ideal. Twice a week is a much better schedule and some guys do even more often. Why did you black out when your wife injected you but not when your doctor does it? You should try to take things into your own hands and inject at home. We've all had the fear and gotten over it, you can too. I'm more nervous now letting someone else jab me than doing it myself, it's totally natural for me now.


#7

I know my Endo was giving me 200mg a week in 0.5ml. I don't know exactly what mg my family doctor was doing but I will check. We still don't know what happened with the black out but when my wife did gave me the shot it Was more painful than normal. Where exactly do you self inject? I may be able to do it myself once I am shown how.

I will get the mg amount for the 1cc and post it.

Thanks!


#8

1 cc = 1 ml
If your test was 200mg/ml, then 0.5ml(.5cc) is 100mg weekly


#9

This is doubtful because it would mean the product was 400 mg/mL....I don't know if this even exists (it could but it certainly isn't standard).

You seem confused with numbers.


#10

My last script from the Endo says "0.5ml (200mg) once a week with 21/22g needle)"

Sorry but the blood work was from another doctor for 1cc (don't know the mg). I am going tomorrow to the GP and asking for weekly shots again ( I am currently on Testim). I will ask for blood work in 1 month on all of the parameters listed on this site (free T, lh, fsh, estradiol, thyroid, e2 etc.). I am just going tell him that is what I want and I will find another Doc if they only want the total T.

Is 1 month on shots enough time to do blood work? If my Total T is at 200 then what is a good weekly dose (200mg, 300mg, 400mg etc.)

Thanks for all the help!


#11

100 mg/week gets most guys towards the upper quarter of the range. Some need more than 100, occasionally people need less, but 100 is a good starting point.

One month is probably ok, but 6 weeks is better IMO.

Instead of telling your docs that you want those test and will go elsewhere unless they appease you, why not learn what the tests are intended to diagnose and be able to have an intelligent two way conversation with your doctor about why you feel they are needed?


#12

Thanks! I actually really like my GP doctor but his testing is not very complete. He is a great guy who has tried his best to help, so if I switched to another Doctor it would be No problem. He was cool with me going with the Endo to try and switch it up.

However I will go to whomever is willing to help ME the most. Therefore, I want a more detailed version of my bloodwork so we can discuss it better.

I tried 100mg a week for 2 months and I felt bad so I may need more to start off with.