T Nation

Confused About Neurotype. 1B or 3?

Christian Thibaudeau Coaching
#1

Hello Coach Thib and Guys!

I’m maybe new to the forum but I’ve been studying everything I could from CT and Charles. I’m reading T-Nation and everything I can for years and for hours EVERYDAY (started reading Charles articles about 23 years ago).
I’ve been reading all neurotype evaluation posts so I could learn how to interpret results of others and know myself better and I think I’m quite good at it BUT… it’s so hard to be objective about yourself.

|Sub-total “Main” |21|69|-5|-3|56|
|Sub-total “Secondary”|38|46|8|40|26|
|Sub-total “Other” |30|7|24|13|27|
| Total |89|122|27|50|109|

Please help:
Am I typical stressed 1B or geeky 3 but with high acetylocholine?

Years ago I took the flawed as you say Braverman test and I was almost perfectly ballanced with Dopa33 Acet35 Gaba32 Sero30 so I automatically assumed I’m 2A.

Can you please help? I would be Very Thankfull!

#2

I’m not CT but I’ve got a certificate from his neurotyping the founding principles course.

Based on your scores it looks like you’re a type 3 with high acetylcholine. Each neurotype has a combination of 3 profiles.

Type 1B usually has a decent amount of 2A and 3 traits while a type 3 mostly has 2B and 1A traits. Since you scored fairly low on 2A and have a higher score on 2B, my guess would be that you’re more oriented towards a type 3 (unless you weren’t brutally honest with yourself while taking the test). Also, your type 1A and 3 scores were consistenly higher than your 2A scores in the main, secondary and other subtotals and your 2B subtotals were 2 times out of 3 higher than your 2A subtotals, both interesting clues.

The very high acetylcholine score is a bit unusual but does occur with type 3’s.

This is what CT has to say about the credibility of the Braverman test:

"The Braverman assessment was utilized for similar purposes to the Neurotyping system but it is extremely limited in some regards. For example, it only assesses 4 of the main neurotransmitters and disregards the two most important activating neurotransmitters (noradrenaline/adrenaline and glutamate).

It is also imprecise in other aspects, for example, the “dopamine” questions are in large part applicable to an adrenaline dominance.

Finally, it makes some incorrect diagnostics, for example, that a high dopamine score indicates a high level of dopamine whereas it really indicates a high sensitivity to dopamine, which normally comes with a low dopamine level."

Just take an honest, closer look at your personality and your preferred training/diet regimen:

  • What makes you feel good and perform at your best (high carb or high fat)?
  • Do you tend to overthink and plan everything in advance?
  • Do you have an insatiable drive for learning and understanding things in great detail?
  • Are you a routine animal and hate it when things happen unexpectedly or when last minute changes are made in your plans?
  • Are you more intorverted and don’t seek new social connections or can you interact easily with anyone?
  • Are you creative and can you easily acces information and memories on different topics?
  • Are you a master at redirecting conversations?
  • Can you learn new movements effortlessly?
  • Are you naturally explosive?
  • Do you get amped up easily or do you require a lot of time to get in the zone when training?
  • What works better for you mentally and physically: high or low volume, high or low intensity, explosiveness or slow, mindful contractions?

If you think about these questions, the answers will directly push you towards your true neurotype.

3 Likes
#3

Thanx Lou for quick answer but… I know it all, just didn’t wanted to make the question too long and complicated.
Acording to these questions - answers don’t give me any further clue if I’m 1B or 3 because:

  • I can eat eleven big donuts for breakfast and feel like a god (I know this is stupid :)) but I also like fat meats - I feel like I have energy for the whole day after such breakfast so it’s 1:1
  • I overthink and overplan as fuck!
  • I like interesting things just like anyone else, sometimes I have a fetish for details. In every school I was the worst of all students but used to make up everything in few or even one day and have the best marks
  • I love plans and routines, changes make me agressive
  • I’m introverted, don’t like people but when I’m pissed off I tell everyone to fuck off without worrying about consequences
  • People say I’m creative but I don’t think so though I rule the lego blocks :slight_smile:
  • Have good memory and atention to details, sometimes superb but sometimes it doesn’t work like I’d like to so it’s not perfect
  • I like conversations but with rules like in scientific literature, don’t like talking for the sake of talk, like to proof people are stupid (with good success rate)
  • I think motor learning is rather intellectual proces, I learn effortlesly but with big dose of analysis (I started reading russian scientific sports literature at 15, now I’m 39 so I know a thing about moving)
  • I’m explosive, always been the fastest, almost not bending the knees while VJ
  • I get amped up in the lightning speed (while training). I warm up only for injury prevention not to ramp up, althought I like many warm ups, just don’t need them. Sometimes have throuble calming down after that…
  • I guess that for the best progress and mood high intensity, low volume and medium frequency (3/week) were the best. The best workouts that I’ve ever had were: throwing 20-40kg rocks, clapping pusups, sprints, powerfull KB swings and tree pullups with short rests between - kind of neural charge workout with more density.
  • I’ve also been training mountain biking for many years but had explosive, powerfull style and usually workouts for 90-120 min max.
  • Didn’t had problems with lactate on my bike (maybe because of enthusiasm) but hate lactate while training anything else
  • Had 10kg gains (mostly muscle) in 6 months on a simple UB/LB 4/week on double progression for 6-8 reps without pushing too hard on rpe
  • I’ve had an episode with gripping, felt really good after workouts, could close 200lbs gripper with one finger weighing about 80kg (I work in the port, where none of the stevedoors couldn’t close it with whole palm… and they are strong dudes)

I think this tells more about me but it’s still hard to decide if I’m fast twitch, high acetylcholine type 3 or stressed 1B with maybe inermediate fibers dominance (biking)… who knows…?

Anyone?
Please help.

#4

Mate,

In my honest opinion, everything in your answer tells me you are most likely a type 3.

If you know it all then perhaps you know there are type 3’s out there who have the ACTN RR gene :wink: .

In case you don’t know what that means (but I highly doubt it because I believe you’re very well researched and meticulous about topics that interest you), I’ll explain briefly:

Type 3’s with the ACTN RR gene are very rare and basically are blessed with a higher ratio of fast twitch muscle fibers. They are more explosive, have greater muscle growth potential, are more tolerant towards mechanical stress and have greater mTor activation (= more and faster muscle growth).

Or it could be that you were an ACTN RX (mixed ratio of slow, intermediate and fast muscle fibers) genotype and improved your amount of fast twitch muscle fibers due to prolonged exposure to high intensity strength training (assuming you started training at the same time you started reading sports literature).

I could be wrong but this would be my conclusion.

CT is the expert though, maybe he can throw some guidance your way.

Best of luck

#5

Thanks again!

Yea I’ve been wondering about ACT3N RR and looking for convenient test to take but in this circumstances I don’t know if it’s necessary (high acetylocholine score). I guess high percentage of fast twitch and high acetylocoline have the same implications for the perfect training system for my neurotype.
It’s crazy, like my body is not compatible with CNS… two different worlds.
My father was very athletic and acomplished (long jump, sprinting, volleyball and soccer), definitely physically 1B but very strong will and overconfidence like 1A and my mom - the oposite: artist, very patient, calm, knowledgeable and kind of strong and athletic without any workouts. I must have body of my father and mind of my mother, it’s just funny.you realise this kind of stuff at almost 40 years old :slight_smile:

I think the perfect workout shedule to feel good and being performance driven must be something like 3 sessions a week and maybe one additional session for lacking bodyparts or movements (if really well recovered and low overall stress), lots of sets, 6-10 reps, big RIR, explosive or at least fast concentrics, maybe pauses and really slow eccentrics. Generally kind of like easy-hardgainer workouts from Chris.

What do you think guys, maybe Chris could comment on that…?
Would appreciate much!

#6

It all depends on your goals though. What do you wish to achieve with your training?

Also, don’t go too nuts in trying to perfect every little detail of your workout regimen. I’m also a type 3 and tend to do that as well. Still, the most basic program done with 100% effort will yield greater results than the best program ever made at 80% effort. It’s all a bit relative.

Whenever I freak out about all the variables and tend to lose my shit, I just go back to one very special quote that puts things back in perspective: “methods are many, principles are few. Methods always change but principles never do.”

Make sure you cover the bases of progressive overload in your training first (more reps, sets, load,…). Afterwards you can start to experiment more with training variables and see what works and what doesn’t.

However, if you’re looking for an absolute legend in program design and periodization who uses A LOT of structure in his programming, I would highly recommend you check out Stephane Cazeault.

With over 24 years in experience he perfected the principles of program design and periodization. His program design is carefully structured with every possible component taken into consideration to ensure the trainee reaches and exceeds their goals, making his work a combination of both science and art.

I basically use the information in the neurotyping series to improve training periodization for my neurotype. Not that CT’s program design isn’t good. The man is just on another level with his programming skills that sometimes it feels like rocket science to me lol.

1 Like
#7

Thank You for your answer.

Yea you sound like type 3, btw Stephane too. I’ve heard about him before but I’ll do more indepth search.

“Methods are many, principles are few.
Methods always change but principles never do.” - it’s deep, I like it, words to live by and to remind everyday!

1 Like
#8

Glad to read this. I’ve been trying to square the circle of being a 2B by nature but a 3 by nurture (or lack thereof). Interesting about the 1A traits. I’ll have to go back over my scores.

#9

That’s funny, I used to think I was a type 2B as well and became a 3 due to some bad mistakes I’ve made. You can have mixed characteristics, but you only have ONE true neurotype. It might take you a while to figure out which type you are because it requires you to be totally honest with yourself. A good idea is to let someone who knows you very well review your scores or retake the neurotyping test for you. This might give you a better analysis.

Just start by using the recommended diet and training regimen for your presumed neurotype and see how you react. You can always make adjustments along the way.

Even if you are a type 3 that doesn’t mean you can’t train like a 2B though. It’s all about making the right adaptations depending on lifestyle factors. If you’re feeling really good and confident, you can do a couple of phases were you train like a type 2B (by bumping up training frequency to 4x/week for example). If you’re feeling really stressed out, train more like a type 3 (2-3x/week) and increase carbs to get yourself back to normal stress levels.

Yeah, the 1A traits come mostly from an intense need to control things. For example a type 3 normally doesn’t want to take the lead in a group setting, but will do so or reject the authority of the person in charge if he/she feels like that person takes too many risks or does not know very well what he’s doing. Type 3’s can also come across as arrogant whenever they’re stressed out bad. Like lukaszd said, a type 3 generally doesn’t need to be around people all the time, is more introverted but can easily tell people to fuck off if he/she’s not in the mood.

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#10

I’ve experimented with both, for example, CTs Best Damn High Volume for Natties and a DC training/RP based program. Hard to say which I’ve enjoyed more; it’s been nice to toggle back and forth when I feel burned out (or bored) by one or the other.

#11

what about high intensity methods- like Mike Mentzer heavy duty style for neurotype 3 .? Thank you

#12

Mike Mentzer’s heavy duty training can work for a type 3 if you adhere to rules:

  • Don’t use HIT all the time. The intensity of these workouts increases cortisol and adrenaline to a greater degree than a lower intensity, normal volume workout would. Type 3’s are really susceptible to stress and adrenaline overload, which makes it super hard for them recover. I would use 1-2 phases max of HIT in a training macrocyle if hypertrophy or absolute strength is the goal. I would not use it during a fat loss macrocyle because stress is already elevated from being in a caloric deficit. You can use intensity techniques (supersets, pre-fatigue, post-fatigue, yielding isometrics etc.) for a higher rep range (8-15) with lower weights during a fatloss phase though, provided you keep the volume lower (12-16 worksets) and focus mainly on lactate production and/or muscle fiber fatigue.

  • When using high intensity, keep everything else on the lower side. The higher the intensity (either via load or intensity techniques) the lower the volume (number of exercises/sets) and training frequency, especially for a type 3. If you’re going with mike mentzer’s training, I would go for 2, maybe 3 training sessions (body split) per week depending on recovery and keep total workout volume really low, like 6-8 worksets maximum. I would introduce HIT in the last mesocycle of your macrocyle for hypertophy for example so you can use the size and strength gains built in the previous phases to “peak” in the HIT phase.

  • Type 3’s are not built for neurological work (high intensity either via load or intensity techniques in a low rep range increase neural drive to the muscle). They can do it every once in a while, but they can’t sustain this type of training for long because it creates a lot of muscle damage/mTOR activation which is the hardest to recover from AND it increases adrenaline production because of the perceived intensity of the workout. Therefore, use neurological work sparingly and for 2-3 weeks tops.

  • Warmup properly before each high intensity session to get yourself in the optimal training state. Type 3’s really benefit from doing 5-10 minutes of steady state cardio (110-120 bpm) combined with a dynamic stretching drill (choose exercises that target the muscles you’ll be training) and maybe some motor skill prep for the main movement of the workout. Although they don’t need activation work because they are already hyped, they will benefit from a fair amount of warmup sets for the main lift to reduce anxiety. It’s all about feeling in control, which brings me to my next point.

  • ONLY USE EXERCISES THAT YOU HAVE MASTERED. The higher the intensity, the more important this rule becomes for keeping a type 3 in the optimal performance state. When a type 3 feels in complete control of the movement, he becomes more confident and less anxious in moving big weights or doing brutal sets done to failure and beyond.

  • FOCUS ON MAXIMUM RECOVERY. Consume carbs peri-workout and add 3-5 grams of glycine and 250 mg of magnesium biglycinate/magnesium taurate post workout. Have a bigger carb meal in the evening to support deep sleep and if you want to max out results, take an ionic zinc supplement (single ingredient) to assist your immune system in supporting muscle growth.

2 Likes
#13

thank you :slightly_smiling_face:

#14

You’re welcome, happy training!