T Nation

Confused about E2


#1

Hey guys,
So I know the sweet spot is 20-30 for E2 but my question is when do we want to sit in this range?
On trough or during peak?

If my trough comes back at 22-25 then wouldn’t my peak be much higher?

I’m still struggling to get dialed in as I over respond to AI’s so I’ve had crashed E2 for about 8 weeks, haven’t touched a AI in 4 weeks, felt great for the first 2 but the last week and a half I feel shitty and not myself, so Ive ordered bloods to see where my E2 is at.

Kinda worried to take an AI again but trying to figure out if I should be at 22 on my trough or peak

My E2 when on an AI at 0.25mg x 2 per week was 5.

2 weeks later it was only 15

Thanks for reading and any help in advance


#2

I find 1/10 of a tablet of aromasin slower acting and less harsh than anastrozole, you can get anastrozole in 0.050 if you go through a compounding pharmacy.

It’s hard to recommended anything without know your TRT protocol or lack of complete labs.


#3

Why are you taking an AI? Don’t chase numbers. Go by how you feel. Low E2 is associated with disease. High E2 is protective. Can it get too high? Sure, but it is only “too high” if you are having symptoms.


#4

Because unfortunately this is the protocol I was placed on by my Dr, I know now through further reading that this should not be the case when starting, wait for symptoms then check.

And I also confused the low E2 symptoms with high E2, it seems I bloat and retain water with low E2 so this made me think I had high E2, fortunately I’ve now learn my lesson through weeks of feeling like shit with low E2 lol


#5

What is your protocol?


#6

Thank you for your advice, I didn’t post labs because I was just wondering if people aim for their E2 to be at 22 at peak or trough when testing


#7

Currently
50mg Test E every 3.5 days
250iu HCG 2x per week

T is top of range on trough test
Shgb is around 25


#8

Do yourself a favor and get this “sweet spot number” out of your head. Its not beneficial to chase an imaginary number. Go by feel.

Higher e2 is better than lower e2.

High e2 is nothing to be worried about if you take corrective actions. You wont grow tits overnight.


#9

The HCG dosage is a little weak, normally it’s 400-500 twice weekly as 250 twice weekly is not enough and is too infrequent at that dosage. I don’t aim for a number, I try out an protocol and base my next move on how I feel.

Try DIM, it increases libido in some men.

Lower your dosage of Test and E2 will come down on its own, better yet drop the HCG which is known to increase estrogen.


#10

You don’t have business taking an AI… if your TT is top of range on trough, you have room to lower your dose a little bit.

I keep seeing people say that they are “over-responders” to AI’s… Seems more likely that you don’t actually need one if such a small dose of an AI completely trashes your e2. Could be true, but its probably more likely that that person DOESNT need an AI. maybe more natural methods.


#11

Ok thank you for your help, I will follow your advice and ditch looking for a number, one reason I was looking for a number was because I read a couple of studies and articles that found mortality rates were lower at this range and there was also reported accounts of increased libido and higher sense of well being.

I’m pretty new to TRT so I am still learning the curve is steep but im getting there


#12

Thank you for your advice.
I want to keep testicular function so I plan to keep the HCG for fertility reasons.

What is DIM sorry? I’m not familiar with this abbreviation,


#13

We all started somewhere.

My biggest mistake: Following the stupid “22” Sweet spot nonsense.

Consequences: Wasted year of TRT, Knee problems that persisted for over a year, barely recovering.

So unless you want to waste part of your life, id advise finding other ways to controls your e2, IF it even gets too high.


#14

Based on my most recent bloods, I think I have only been top of range on trough because I had no active aromase, so no test was being converted to E2.

My results from last week are 560 on trough, with low E2 but much better than when it was crashed, All troughs before this were top of the range, but I’ve just remembered this latest one now, sorry for the miscommunication

But I agree, it is most likely that I do not need an AI at all.
I am low body fat and I don’t drink alcohol often so I probably don’t have a lot of aromase as it is, I’ll stay well away from it unless symptoms develope and then I’ll look at bloods first

Thank you


#15

Wow thanks for the heads up, sorry to hear you had knee problems!
My knees do click at the moment, from the low E2 most likely.

Do you check your E2 levels?
Or only when you feel symptoms?
I know this is very individual based but for you what is a tell tale sign for E2 is too high?


#16

Your knees ARE clicking because of the low e2. E2 helps keep joints lubricated.

I check my e2 whenever I go for my regular labs. I also have access to labs very easily so anytime I feel like my e2 might be off I just get it done then and there.

Biggest tells:

Low e2: Dry Skin, Dry Eyes, Dry dick, Low libido, Joints ache and pop (knees burn now because of past low e2 injury)

High e2: Libido diminishes, still able to get up, but dick might become floppy during masturbation, or it will take FOREVER to ejaculate, those are my early warning signs, then itchy nipples is the red flag. At this point you HAVE to take action.


#17

I can confirm joint issues on low E2. My high E2 symptoms are diminished ejaculate, moodiness, crying, testicles don’t hang and are pulled up.


#18

A lot of long term TRT users have used HCG when trying for another kid, then stop HCG after the getting the wife pregnant, this way your TRT protocol is less complicated. Some even use FSH injections which is far more effective than HCG, but good luck getting insurance to pay for it.

DIM modulates estrogen metabolism, but doesn’t lower or block estrogen from being produced. I’ve only seen it for sale on Amazon and not at the local CVS.