T Nation

Confused About Anti-Es and HCG


I am trying to research as much about steroids as I can before trying them. My first thread I posted was about doing an anavar only cycle. What a mistake that turned out to be! Seems that anavar only cycles will do nothing for you whatsoever, so I've decided to take the plunge and do some pinning.

I've decided to do 250mg of Test E weekly, with 50mg of anavar daily. Will be running this for 8 weeks.

For my PCT I will use Nolva for 4 weeks at 40/40/20/20 and clomid at 50/50/50/50.

That is what I've decided on based on my research so far. If it looks like a pile of shit then I'm not averse to changing it.

What I really don't know anything about (well, I don't really know much about anything but I'm trying to learn) is anti-Es or HCG. From what I've read, Nolva is an anti-E but I thought it was just for use as PCT, and not for use during the cycle.

Is there something I should be using during the cycle as an anti E? And where does HCG come in?

I am willing to learn for myself so if it's a hassle to teach me then I would appreciate just being directed to a good resource I can learn from. There's a lot of conflicting info out there and it's difficult to know what to pay attention to.

Thanks in advance


SERM/AI info is broken down nicely in the sticky at the top of these forums. HCG is taken to prevent your balls from shrinking while on cycle (facilitating recovery) and is most effective at around 250 iu 2x/week.

As for your cycle, 250mg of test is a high-ish TRT dose. All you're doing is replacing your natural test with the synthetic kind and shutting down your body's ability to produce testosterone in the process. 500mg is a good starting point. Either way, if you're going to do 8 weeks of Test E you need to frontload it. Look into what that entails.

For PCT you need Nolva or Clomid, you don't need both. I would suggest Nolva.



You've got some work to do


thanks guys, so right now I need to learn about Test E frontloading. I'll check it out.

One more thing, if I can't get nolva is clomid an ok substitute?


oh yeah and I'll take 500mg of test instead of 250. Thank you for keeping me right on that one.


agreed. Test E is a longer ester and you should run it for a minimum of 10 weeks. Also, don't use nolva ON cycle


the more I learn the less I know...

Ok so I'm now running 500mg of test for 10 weeks. Any thoughts of my anavar use? Do I just use it for the last 6 weeks of the cycle? I keep reading places that it's not such a good idea to use an oral for longer than 6 weeks.

The reason I'm using anavar is for a harder, drier physique


It's like this. Test E is a medium-long estered testosterone. Without frontloading, it will take 4-5 weeks for it to build up in your system to the point where you start seeing real significant gains. So 10 weeks would give you 5-6 weeks of gains vs 3-4 with 8 weeks. The flip side of this is the longer you stay on, the more difficult recovery becomes. So there really is no "right" answer between 8 and 10 weeks, just different levels of risk vs reward.

Either way, you will want to frontload to get your blood levels up sooner than 4-5 weeks. If you do 8 weeks, 2 vials would give you enough to shoot 1.5g the first week and then 500mg/week after that.

"Orals" encompasses a lot of different drugs and it's hard to make generalizations about them. Anavar is mild compared to Dbol, which is mild compared to methyl tren. 6 weeks of 50mg should not be an issue at all, I would run it the last 4 weeks of your cycle plus the 2 leading up to PCT.


Minimum of 10 weeks? Says who? God?


@Bonez, if you think 8 weeks is enough then that suits me fine. I've read other posts by you and you certainly seem to know your stuff so I appreciate you chiming in.

@Overstand, thank you for clearing up what you meant by frontloading and also the info regarding the cycle length. Based on the info from you and Bonez I think that 8 weeks will be enough.

So my revised cycle is as follows:

test E 1.5g in week 1
test E 500mg/week for week 2 - 8
anavar 50mg a day for weeks 4 - 10
HCG 250iu 3x a week for weeks 3-8
PCT weeks 10 - 14 running Nolva at 40/40/20/20

Do I have that right? Thank you all for your patience with the mega-noob!


Your cycle is good

But one thing. Take out a caledar or pull one up on your screen. You last injection will be in the middle of week 8. Assuming you do 2 injections per week.

Your pct will start roughly 2 weeks after that day. So that's not the beginning of week 10. Just be aware of that.

You can also do pct like this and save yourself some nolvadex.

60mg for 3 days.
40mg for the next 4 days.
then 20mg/d for the remaining 3 weeks. Maybe 10mg for the last few days.

You should seriously consider using an AI during the cycle. And taper off it before pct ends.


thanks for the heads up re: the timing of the PCT, I'd have totally missed that. I appreciate the revised PCT too.

If I run an AI (and if you say I should then I definitely will) what sort of dose do you recommend, and how is it best to taper it off? I read the AI sticky but it seems that the dose varies depending on your cycle. Also, are there certain AIs I should use, and others I should avoid? Or do they all work equally as well?

I've read a few places that nolva works during the cycle as an AI but I don't really understand that... It's confusing me as to the difference in function between the AI and PCT


actually scrap that last sentence, I know the difference between the AI and PCT...