Confident on Everything But Arms

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
why do you alternate exercises?

what is that accomplishing, specifically? [/quote]
To give the muscle I just hit a little time to rest before I hit it again.
For example, if I just did ez bar curls, my bis are a little fatigued, so if I go straight into another bicep exercise I wouldnt be able to do as much weight or reps. On the other hand, if I do a tricep exercise next, they can rest while I do db skull crushers. Then when I get to db curls my bis will be a little stronger.[/quote]

Alrighty

I think your tricep selection is poor.

Dumbells are not ideal for triceps. Cables are far superior and can be used in the exact same way.

something like (after a warm up of course, I prefer pushdowns for a warmup)

Smith cgp or HS dips

PJR pullover with ez bar

cable kickbacks or rope pressdown

if you like a 4th thing Id add a different cable attachment. 3 should be plenty though.

I see no way that dumbell skull crushers can provide the type of stablility needed for good progression.[/quote]

Bonez, for the CGP is there much difference in performing it on a Smith versus on a flat bench press? The guided track on the smith helps focus the form and work the tris better?

Tricep Pushdowns

For pushdowns I’ve seen variations where people face the weight stack and face away, does it make much difference? Also good form is to bend the knees and not lean in past the cable? Thanks.

Shit just got real

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
why do you alternate exercises?

what is that accomplishing, specifically? [/quote]
To give the muscle I just hit a little time to rest before I hit it again.
For example, if I just did ez bar curls, my bis are a little fatigued, so if I go straight into another bicep exercise I wouldnt be able to do as much weight or reps. On the other hand, if I do a tricep exercise next, they can rest while I do db skull crushers. Then when I get to db curls my bis will be a little stronger.[/quote]

Alrighty

I think your tricep selection is poor.

Dumbells are not ideal for triceps. Cables are far superior and can be used in the exact same way.

something like (after a warm up of course, I prefer pushdowns for a warmup)

Smith cgp or HS dips

PJR pullover with ez bar

cable kickbacks or rope pressdown

if you like a 4th thing Id add a different cable attachment. 3 should be plenty though.

I see no way that dumbell skull crushers can provide the type of stablility needed for good progression.[/quote]

Bonez, You basically do the exercises in the same order as Meadows!

For the pjr pullovers with the ez bar do you do them from a dead stop on the floor every rep? I have read about dead stop pullovers but can’t imagine how to do them when you aren’t on a decline bench. Does your upper back come off the bench so that you can reach the floor with the bar?

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
why do you alternate exercises?

what is that accomplishing, specifically? [/quote]

Why don’t you read the article by John Meadows that came out today? There is nothing wrong with alternating tris to bis.[/quote]

Who said there is?

Did you read my posts afterwards?

Why dont you spend more time lifting before running your mouth. DebraD has a better back than you. [/quote]

L O fucking L!!

Bonez strikes again!

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
why do you alternate exercises?

what is that accomplishing, specifically? [/quote]
To give the muscle I just hit a little time to rest before I hit it again.
For example, if I just did ez bar curls, my bis are a little fatigued, so if I go straight into another bicep exercise I wouldnt be able to do as much weight or reps. On the other hand, if I do a tricep exercise next, they can rest while I do db skull crushers. Then when I get to db curls my bis will be a little stronger.[/quote]

Alrighty

I think your tricep selection is poor.

Dumbells are not ideal for triceps. Cables are far superior and can be used in the exact same way.

something like (after a warm up of course, I prefer pushdowns for a warmup)

Smith cgp or HS dips

PJR pullover with ez bar

cable kickbacks or rope pressdown

if you like a 4th thing Id add a different cable attachment. 3 should be plenty though.

I see no way that dumbell skull crushers can provide the type of stablility needed for good progression.[/quote]

Bonez, You basically do the exercises in the same order as Meadows!

For the pjr pullovers with the ez bar do you do them from a dead stop on the floor every rep? I have read about dead stop pullovers but can’t imagine how to do them when you aren’t on a decline bench. Does your upper back come off the bench so that you can reach the floor with the bar?[/quote]

obviously im not bonez but ill answer anyways. do dead stop extension lying on the floor. bring the bar behind your head, let it rest and then explode but dont lock out. you can do it on a bench by leaving room on the bench behind your head and letting the EZ rest on the bench.

[quote]actionboy wrote:

obviously im not bonez but ill answer anyways. do dead stop extension lying on the floor. bring the bar behind your head, let it rest and then explode but dont lock out. you can do it on a bench by leaving room on the bench behind your head and letting the EZ rest on the bench.[/quote]

Lying on the floor is the easiest solution. I guess a decline could work as well.

I don’t think you need to necessarily “not lock out”;
In order to keep more tension, try locking out on your forehead/top of your head instead of on your chest. This way your arms are at a slight angle and the angle seems to put some nice stress on the triceps during lockout.

Don’t rush this movement because it’s main benefit (compared to a not-stopped version) is to save the elbows some trouble. Rushing won’t help that.

PJR’s are not done with a dead stop. They’re a higher rep stretch movement for the long head.

Dead Stop Extensions are. They are done with less range of motion at the shoulder joint than PJR’s and with heavier weights.

You can do these either lying on a bench (let bench stop the bar, but than can be a problem as you’d grip the bar with a narrow grip so your hands would end up on the bench), or the floor (though that offers less ROM, use smaller plates here, the 25’s or so), or, if you can, try this lying on the pad in front of the low cable station (where you’d sit on while doing cable rows)… This way the ground is closer than with a regular bench, perfect ROM…

On both exercises you do not bring the bar all the way up (until arms are perpendicular to the floor), but rather you stop with upper arms angled back, so that the bar would be over your forehead or whatever (depends on arm length etc).

And PJR’s are the ones which are usually elbow friendly (if not, then you’re really doing something wrong or have major tendinitis or something… Note, DB version is more elbow friendly than BB imo, but harder on the wrists for me).

Dead Stop Extensions can be quite hard on the elbow, even though you’re angling your upper arms back… At some point the weights just get quite heavy… Wear sleeves, warm up well, don’t do them if your elbows don’t feel right that day.

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
PJR’s are not done with a dead stop. They’re a higher rep stretch movement for the long head.

Dead Stop Extensions are. They are done with less range of motion at the shoulder joint than PJR’s and with heavier weights.

You can do these either lying on a bench (let bench stop the bar, but than can be a problem as you’d grip the bar with a narrow grip so your hands would end up on the bench), or the floor (though that offers less ROM, use smaller plates here, the 25’s or so), or, if you can, try this lying on the pad in front of the low cable station (where you’d sit on while doing cable rows)… This way the ground is closer than with a regular bench, perfect ROM…

On both exercises you do not bring the bar all the way up (until arms are perpendicular to the floor), but rather you stop with upper arms angled back, so that the bar would be over your forehead or whatever (depends on arm length etc).

[/quote]

This is what I would have said. More or less. (less)

[quote]Cephalic_Carnage wrote:
And PJR’s are the ones which are usually elbow friendly (if not, then you’re really doing something wrong or have major tendinitis or something… Note, DB version is more elbow friendly than BB imo, but harder on the wrists for me).

Dead Stop Extensions can be quite hard on the elbow, even though you’re angling your upper arms back… At some point the weights just get quite heavy… Wear sleeves, warm up well, don’t do them if your elbows don’t feel right that day.

[/quote]

And this.

Dead stop extensions flare up my tendonitis more than traditional skull crushers.

I do the pjrs on a machine that has a bench and something to hook my feet under. The one I use happens to be a HS 20degree iso pec fly.

I cant do them without my feet anchored down, the weight Id be able to use would be signifcantly less.

[quote]thrasher_09 wrote:

Bonez, You basically do the exercises in the same order as Meadows!

[/quote]

Cool.

I think its pretty basic and common sensical to do (after a warmup with cables) a heavy press, something for the long head, and a finisher that emphasizes a squeeze.

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
I do the pjrs on a machine that has a bench and something to hook my feet under. The one I use happens to be a HS 20degree iso pec fly.

I cant do them without my feet anchored down, the weight Id be able to use would be signifcantly less. [/quote]

I use a regular bench but hook my feet around the legs of the bench, my gym has nothing anchored down…

Bonez (or anyone)- why do you warm up with cable pushdowns as opposed to whatever the first exercise is but light weights?
And do the exercises have to be in that order? (cgbp, pjr, rope) or is it ok if I do pjrs, cgbp smith, then rope pushdowns? (just because on the pjrs fresh I had like a ten and a five on each side, and if I did smith first I would probably be doing like ten on each side–yeah I know weak but Im eating alot)

Also (I can never seem to find an answer for these questions) when doing cgbp in the smith, what is the correct form? am I right by doing the following:
-set the bench so the bar comes down to about nipple line
-grip the bar so thumbs are about 6 inches apart

  • unrack push like normal, but not bringing the bar all the way down (about two inches above chest to isolate tris and not get chest in there)

sound good? And do you have to squeeze your shoulder blades and tuck your elbows?

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Also (I can never seem to find an answer for these questions) when doing cgbp in the smith, what is the correct form? am I right by doing the following:
-set the bench so the bar comes down to about nipple line
-grip the bar so thumbs are about 6 inches apart

  • unrack push like normal, but not bringing the bar all the way down (about two inches above chest to isolate tris and not get chest in there)

sound good? And do you have to squeeze your shoulder blades and tuck your elbows?[/quote]

Don’t grip it too close… Whatever is comfortable… Must not bother your wrists and you should be able to actually move some weight. The super-narrow grip benching you see in textbooks is bullshit…

If you do it in the smith, push towards your feet as well as up (either in straight smith or, if it’s angled, set up so that you can literally push the bar towards your feet as you push it up). Do a proper powerlifting setup with your shoulder blades and all. Keep your shoulders pinned to the bench.

If you do that, you can probably go all the way down just fine… Just make sure you press towards your feet to really get the tris into it fully (long head as well).

I personally tuck my elbows as it feels better when doing this for me…

Where the bar comes down depends… You don’t want your forearms to be angled back towards your head too much at the bottom, it’s not a JM press. So set up whichever way fits.

[quote]eyegainweightbig wrote:
Bonez (or anyone)- why do you warm up with cable pushdowns as opposed to whatever the first exercise is but light weights?
And do the exercises have to be in that order? (cgbp, pjr, rope) or is it ok if I do pjrs, cgbp smith, then rope pushdowns? (just because on the pjrs fresh I had like a ten and a five on each side, and if I did smith first I would probably be doing like ten on each side–yeah I know weak but Im eating alot)[/quote]

I do cable extensions from various arm angles to get the blood flowing. I feel like it warms up the muscle and the elbow joint faster than doing light sets of HS dips or smith CGP (constantly taking weights off nad putting new ones on, moving a pin is quick)

Exercises dont have to be in any order, ever.

I prefer that order because I think it makes the most sense. I wont do pjrs unless the triceps are very warmed up because of the intense stretch I get. I think it would be dangerous for me if I did them first. There is a lot of loose form involved and for me, controlling the weight is a priority early in the traiing session

(I start flaring about halfway up though, pretty similar to how I bench, tuck on way down and at the bottom, then flare out on the way up)

Thanks bonez and cc…
And yeah bonez i have seen you post before that order doesnt matter, but I will start doing those second to prevent injury (not that im lifting huge weights but just to be safe)
so its:
warm up, a couple sets of gradually increasing light weight on cable pushdowns (straight bar, rope, or v bar, whatever is on)
smith cgbp
pjr’s aka skull crushers with a slight pullover motion
rope pushdowns

[quote]gregron wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:

[quote]Rocky2 wrote:

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
why do you alternate exercises?

what is that accomplishing, specifically? [/quote]

Why don’t you read the article by John Meadows that came out today? There is nothing wrong with alternating tris to bis.[/quote]

Who said there is?

Did you read my posts afterwards?

Why dont you spend more time lifting before running your mouth. DebraD has a better back than you. [/quote]

L O fucking L!!

Bonez strikes again![/quote]

Ha I actually laughed at that one to. Oops if my statement came off as I was talking down to you, as I sure wasn’t.

I attempted to edit the original post after seeing your other posts, but this forum never saves em right.

However, your statement

[quote]BONEZ217 wrote:
why do you alternate exercises?

what is that accomplishing, specifically? [/quote]
makes it sound like alternating exercises is wrong.