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Concurrent Max Strength & Anaerobic Endurance

Hello everybody, I just wanted to get some thoughts on an idea I had to help me improve Max Strength and Anaerobic Endurance. The max efforts lifts I will concentrate on are: deadlift, squat, & push press. For anaerobic endurance I will be concentrating on body weight circuits, loaded complexes, and jump rope.

My question is if the below routine would help me achieve my goals of improving both these qualities with only 4 days of training per week or if the volume is too much. I have already tried out the “Day 2” template and wow! I feel it working :slight_smile:

Day 1)
1)Max effort 5/3/1 deadlift (every 3 weeks I will switch between DL and back squat.)
2)RE squat variation
3)GH raises – switch between GH raises and good mornings
4a,b,c) Back, trap, and, shoulder circuits

5)jump rope – 10 - 15 minutes HIIT style (30 second sprints, 1 - 2 min low intensity or rest)

Day 2)
DE wholebody routine:
1a)Clean grip high pull
1b)Clean
1c)Clean plus push press
(these three exercises are done one after the other with 60 - 85% of 1RM C&J for one rep each, with 30 second of rest and continuing until I lose power and cannot complete the series; the goal is to be able to get 10 sets in under 12 minutes before adding weight.)

  1. barbell, dumbbell, or bodyweight conditioning circuits 4 - 6 movements focusing on explosiveness and speed. The goal is to up work capacity/density once every week and then back off after 3 - 4 weeks depending on how I feel, etc.

  2. Conditioning runs on treadmill or low intensity cardio on bike/elliptical machine depending on fatigue levels.

Day 3)

  1. ME Push press 5/3/1
  2. RE/ME pull up variation (switch between RE body weight and ME doubles every other week)
  3. arm specific assistance work: as many as I can fit in in 15 - 20 minutes depending on fatigue levels

Day 4)
DE wholebody routine:
1a) snatch grip highpull
1b) snatch
1c) snatch plus OH squat
(these three exercises are done one after the other with 60 - 85% of 1RM snatch for one rep each, with 30 second of rest and continuing until I lose power and cannot complete the series; the goal is to be able to get 10 sets in under 12 minutes before adding weight.)

  1. barbell, dumbbell, or bodyweight conditioning circuits 4 - 6 movements focusing on explosiveness and speed; different from “Day 2” routine. The goal is to up work capacity/density once every week and then back off after 3 - 4 weeks depending on how I feel, etc.

  2. Jump rope skills session: 20 minutes focusing on quality over quantity.

Are you training for anything specific? I merely ask because its important to understand the proper energy systems involved. Anaerobic work takes alot out of you and would maybe be better suited towards being attached to a difffernt strength block. Its hard to make recommendations without knowing what your stats are, ie resting heart rate, anaerobic threshold, max power at anaerobic threshold… and a few others. Just like in 5-3-1 you base your weights off percentages so you have concrete evidence of what to do and what progress is, endurance is the same.

For your max effort… you want to improve squat but you are barely squatting? I imagine all those pulls will probably help your deadlift (i dont do much olympic lifting). However, what are the sticking points, once again what are your current weights. I used to over complicate my lifting a bit trying to accomplish too much at once, but now I do 4 different lifts and brought my sqaut to 450 from 375, same for deadlift and bench from 250-300 in the past 4 months and simultaneously improved “conditioning” to make a blanket term. I did mostly aerobic conditioning under different protocols that I can get into detail more if you like…

but for an example you might understand, punchout drills used to kill me…all out for 20-30 seconds. Now I maintain full power the whole time, dont feel too bad after and do multiple rounds of this before another hour and a half of other bag/pad work. I have only trained my aerobic system… which is a complex entity in itself.

Sorry for the rant, but lets get some more detail about you and your current status.

[quote]666Rich wrote:
Are you training for anything specific? I merely ask because its important to understand the proper energy systems involved. Anaerobic work takes alot out of you and would maybe be better suited towards being attached to a difffernt strength block. Its hard to make recommendations without knowing what your stats are, ie resting heart rate, anaerobic threshold, max power at anaerobic threshold… and a few others. Just like in 5-3-1 you base your weights off percentages so you have concrete evidence of what to do and what progress is, endurance is the same.

For your max effort… you want to improve squat but you are barely squatting? I imagine all those pulls will probably help your deadlift (i dont do much olympic lifting). However, what are the sticking points, once again what are your current weights. I used to over complicate my lifting a bit trying to accomplish too much at once, but now I do 4 different lifts and brought my sqaut to 450 from 375, same for deadlift and bench from 250-300 in the past 4 months and simultaneously improved “conditioning” to make a blanket term. I did mostly aerobic conditioning under different protocols that I can get into detail more if you like…

but for an example you might understand, punchout drills used to kill me…all out for 20-30 seconds. Now I maintain full power the whole time, dont feel too bad after and do multiple rounds of this before another hour and a half of other bag/pad work. I have only trained my aerobic system… which is a complex entity in itself.

Sorry for the rant, but lets get some more detail about you and your current status.[/quote]

Good questions. I am just training for general feats of badassery – you know? LIFE!!

I am intrigued with the idea of having a fitness level necessary to participate in MMA but I have no intention of competing at any level. Since I have spent most of my time in the gym focusing on ME lifts I figured I can back off on these for a few months with no ill effects.

My reasoning for switching out squat and deadlifts is merely a time constraint issue. Even though I don’t plan for ME squatting or deadlifting as often as I did on a strictly powerlifting routine I still plan on getting as much volume as I can with RE method on ME lower body days. I am also doing a lot of full body explosive movements on DE days which mimics the squatting movement.

So maybe I should focus most of my attention on keeping as much max strength as I can (while not necessarily improving it) while concentrating my attention on improving anaerobic endurance which is complete shite! There is no where to go but up for me in this regard. To give you an example: I cannot do 50 burpees without taking a rest…and barfing a lung

My original post is more of a template than a “plan” as I do not want to get too caught up in the exercises themselves but rather I am more interested in the effects of the training modalities.

I do not want to get weaker while I am improving my “GPP”.

Ok now we are getting somewhere. Now I like the example of 50 burpees. This is where you can begin to understand your weak points. Is your heart pounding like a jackhammer and you cant breathe? Or are your muscles absolutley failing you. Or both.

Regardless, your anaerobic system has very little room for improvement. Maybe 10% with consistant work, and really working that would be a detriment to your strength.

I would suggest getting a heart rate monitor and figuring out your resting heart rate. I am going to bet yours is in the 70’s due to lack of aerobic conditioning and emphasis on maximal strength training. Maximal strenght training teaches the heart to contract harder, which can be a good thing, but without increasing the size of the left ventricle it is detrimental thus the popular notion of “that guy is jacked so hes going to gas real quick”

So you want to be in mma sort of shape. Thats admirable, you are going to require development of alot of energy systems in order to achieve that. Anerobic would be the icing on the cake. Once again I am not that experienced with olympic lifts or the carry over to squatting. I do know jim wendler says if you want to get better at squatting, then squat.

To start this goal I would recommend 2-3 times a week of 60-120 minutes cardio keeping your heart rate within 120-150 range. This does not mean jogging, it could be sled dragging, jump rope, shadowboxing , anything. Keep it consistantly within that range. A good way to measure is on cardio equipment however. For example, doing that session at first one might only be able to jog 3 miles at a very slow pace. After a month or so you may be running 5 miles in that same heart rate range… which equates to improved conditioning. More power output at the same level of exertion…ya feel me? This is the supply side of the eqaution since you are economically minded. This type of training allows the heart to produce more blood in a given time frame. Think of it like a water balloon being filled slowly…it expands.

You can concurrently work on the demand side of the equation, or your muscular useage of this. A standard protocal for this is 2x20 minute sessions of high intensity continous training. You are developing the muscles to use oxygen delivered from the heart more efficiently. There must be a high level of resistance during this to stimulate this adaptation. You also train this in the 155-165 heart rate range. An example would be pedaling on a spin bike on the highest resistance for 20 minutes…or a versaclimber. The rocky balboa way is doing uphill lunges, or weighted step ups on a 24in box. For example i do this with 30lbs to keep my hr in that zone stepping onto a 24 in box.

Lastly you work aerobic power. This allows you to produce alot of power aerobically before ever getting to the anaerobic side of things. IE you can do things at a high power output for longer before you get into that heart pounding out of yoru chest phase. This protocol is 10-12 seconds of High resistance intervals which increase the oxidative capabilities of your fast twitch fibers. I find hill sprints or hill sprints with a sled the best way to accomplish this. Erg machines on 10 can be used as well. do the interval, then rest until your hr drops to 130-140. do 15-20 sets. Your hr will mostly not be over the anaerobic threshold during this. Over time you will see increased power during te same interval.

Once again, periodization is key when it comes to this. I will do about 2 weeks of nothing but the first method, then 2 weeks of the first (maintainace) and second method) then 2 weeks of the third and first method. That is a very very general template. I have increased max strength and really improved conditioning simultaenously using madcow 5x5.

Check out 8weeksout.com it is Joel Jamisons site, owner of endzone athletics. Joel trains jens pulver, mach sakurai, rich franklin, spencer fisher, and dozens of other top fighters. He goes against alot of “conventional wisdom” as todays fight circles like to propagate. Check out his articles, they are a little scientific, read the forum and buy his book. You will thank me

Yes, whenever I do anaerobic conditioning my heart feels like it is going to beat out of my chest and I reach muscular failure very quickly – 10 minutes on a good day. I have been using some conditioning routines like the ones I posted above with little or no improvement in the last 6 weeks.

So if I am to understand you correctly you are saying I should build an aerobic base of conditioning first to build my body’s capacity to deliver oxygen more efficiently before focusing on anaerobic conditioning? This makes sense but from what I have read of Jamieson’s work I was lead to believe that focusing on aerobic conditioning will make me lose power…? (http://www.elitefts.com/documents/explosive_power_mma.htm)

You say 60 - 120 min, 2 - 3 times a week just for cardio for the first phase? Does that mean 60 - 120 minutes total spread out over 2 - 3 times per week or did you mean per session?

Thanks for the feedback. I appreciate it a lot!!

I wouldnt even say an aerobic base before anaerobic. The anaerobic system can only contribute for a short amount of time and can be improved only so much. This does not mean neglect entirely either. Furthermore, there is the anaerobic lactic (wrestlin energy) and anaerobic alactic (think boxing).

What I am saying is you want to delay for as long as possible the need to go anaerobic. Joel posted a graph of rich franklin sparing. In each round he comes near the threshold, but only passes it very breifly. He then dropped back down to like 110bpm in between rounds (which is fuckin crazy). So the great majority of that time Rich was using his aerobic system for power. Fedor runs 9 miles a day… and is easily the best conditioned heavy weight.

Actually Joel even stated you dont lose power while training aerobic abilities. Only at extreme ends of trianing (marathon runners) do you begin to sacrifice power. Think of guys like pro rowers, HUGE power outputs and for a great period of time, a great aerobic system is necessary.

That specific article is an overview of pre fight preparation, assuming one has his aerobic training in order and “the base” so to speak, as well as a max strength base. THEN those are specific drills to take that strenght, make it explosive and mma specific, and improve the rate and duration of its output. IE faster harder striking for longer than previous. It would not be possible without the aerobic system development or max strength development.

I mean 60-120 per SESSION. I would say if you are doing 120 minutes, do 2x a week. 60 minutes 3x. It seems like your cardio blows so you will see alot of benefit from this. You do not drop it when working on the other blocks you scale it back a bit.

Example

Week 1 and week 2
day 1. lifting
day 2 120 min cardiac output
day 3 lifting
day 4 120 min cardiac output
day 5 lifting
day 6 lifting or other gpp

weeek 3 aned 4
day 1, day 3 lifting + 1 hr cardiac output
day 2, day 4 2-3x20 min session high intensity continous training (10 min break between sets)
day 5 lifting
day 6. light lifting, gpp, or off

week 5 and 6
day 1,day 3 lifting + 2x20min high intensity continous training
day 2 high resistance interval training
day 4 cardiac output 60 min
day 5 lifting
day 6 high resistance interval training

week 7 and 8
day 1 and 3 lifting + 60 min cardiac output
day 2 and 4 high resistance interval training
day 5 lifting

week 9- only light cardio … maybe a couple 3 mile runs or so… depending on how demanding your lifting schedule is this can be a deload week or that can wait…

Then figure out where you are at…ie resting heart rate, power output at anaerobic threshold, max strength…etc and see what you want to focus on again. I bet you can see alot of progress on that sort of layout. I really encourage you to read joels site though its changed my training signifigantly.

Furthmore, I have put on 7 lbs and become even leaner than I was at the lighter weight, while gaining 50lbs on my squat deadlift and bench. I personally noticed that I was able to spar and fight forever after following his methods from november-march last year. Summer I got a bit lazy… prior to that I trained all anaerobic stuff like burpees, intervals, etc… and while i had good power output. After one match my heart would be pumping through my chest. Furthermore since i was training so anaerobic all th time, my overall energy levels sucked, between that and lifting it drains the body too much. Thus periodizatin helped ALOT.

What is your current body weight and lift stats? Mostly becase I have some friends that put up decent numbers, but are on programs like sheiko and somolov…which are probably better for more advanced people. I thought i was pretty strong, i did 5x5 intermediate and its helped TONS.

[quote]666Rich wrote:
I wouldnt even say an aerobic base before anaerobic. The anaerobic system can only contribute for a short amount of time and can be improved only so much. This does not mean neglect entirely either. Furthermore, there is the anaerobic lactic (wrestlin energy) and anaerobic alactic (think boxing).

What I am saying is you want to delay for as long as possible the need to go anaerobic. Joel posted a graph of rich franklin sparring. In each round he comes near the threshold, but only passes it very breifly. He then dropped back down to like 110bpm in between rounds (which is fuckin crazy). So the great majority of that time Rich was using his aerobic system for power. Fedor runs 9 miles a day… and is easily the best conditioned heavy weight.

Actually Joel even stated you dont lose power while training aerobic abilities. Only at extreme ends of trianing (marathon runners) do you begin to sacrifice power. Think of guys like pro rowers, HUGE power outputs and for a great period of time, a great aerobic system is necessary.

That specific article is an overview of pre fight preparation, assuming one has his aerobic training in order and “the base” so to speak, as well as a max strength base. THEN those are specific drills to take that strenght, make it explosive and mma specific, and improve the rate and duration of its output. IE faster harder striking for longer than previous. It would not be possible without the aerobic system development or max strength development.

I mean 60-120 per SESSION. I would say if you are doing 120 minutes, do 2x a week. 60 minutes 3x. It seems like your cardio blows so you will see alot of benefit from this. You do not drop it when working on the other blocks you scale it back a bit.

Example

Week 1 and week 2
day 1. lifting
day 2 120 min cardiac output
day 3 lifting
day 4 120 min cardiac output
day 5 lifting
day 6 lifting or other gpp

weeek 3 aned 4
day 1, day 3 lifting + 1 hr cardiac output
day 2, day 4 2-3x20 min session high intensity continous training (10 min break between sets)
day 5 lifting
day 6. light lifting, gpp, or off

week 5 and 6
day 1,day 3 lifting + 2x20min high intensity continous training
day 2 high resistance interval training
day 4 cardiac output 60 min
day 5 lifting
day 6 high resistance interval training

week 7 and 8
day 1 and 3 lifting + 60 min cardiac output
day 2 and 4 high resistance interval training
day 5 lifting

week 9- only light cardio … maybe a couple 3 mile runs or so… depending on how demanding your lifting schedule is this can be a deload week or that can wait…

Then figure out where you are at…ie resting heart rate, power output at anaerobic threshold, max strength…etc and see what you want to focus on again. I bet you can see alot of progress on that sort of layout. I really encourage you to read joels site though its changed my training signifigantly.
[/quote]

Oh, crap…

Blow is not even the word to describe my cardio capacity. I am going to have to work on this a lot.

I read thru some of the articles on Joel’s page. Lots of interesting ideas, for sure.

I need to figure out how to scale your example down to a 4 day/week program and realize I probably won’t be as elite as I want to be.

Onward and upward, nevertheless.

Why does it need to be 4 days a week? If it is really that bad then focus on the cardiac output work for a month or two before moving to the other methods. Get a heart rate monitor…