T Nation

'Complexes' in article vs traditional + cardio?

Beginners
#1

Hello all, thanks in advance for any/all info!

I’ve read the ‘Screw Cardio…Complexes’ article (http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/screw_cardio_four_complexes_for_a_shredded_physique)

and really like the methodology behind it. I am trying to decide if I should take a circuit/tabata/‘crossfit-esqe’ approach or stick with more traditional methods in my endeaver.

I am 26, about 260lb (down from 275 a month or two ago) at 6’2" and have a 38-40" waist (so certainly not a muscular 260).

I play in a few Ice Hockey leagues, so it would be nice to get stronger/function, but its a pretty low level of play, with other old guys, so I don’t prefer functional to ‘looking good naked’ as they say.

My ‘gym’ is a treadmill, elliptical, med ball, and dumbells from 10-50lb. I do not have room to add more (squat racks/bench) so the ‘crossfit’ or circuit/body weight approach was appealing, but if I need to get to a real gym, so be it.

The article suggests adding these circuits into your normal routine on an off day, but these things are hard (good!) and I’m worried about doing too much too soon. I’ve been doing the Waterbury Complex if that makes any difference.

On the other hand, I see articles like the Scott Abel one suggesting a 3 workouts per day approach (in his actor example) so maybe I just need to suck it up?

On the last hand (so to speak) I’ve heard ‘do cardio in the morning, lift at night, every day’…

So I guess I’m a little confused. I’m sure any would work better than what I’m doing now (procrastinating and researching incessantly…) but I’d like to go down the best path possible and will dedicate as much time as it takes (even if its 3x a day, 7 days a week)

#2

[quote]morepower4me wrote:
Hello all, thanks in advance for any/all info!

I’ve read the ‘Screw Cardio…Complexes’ article (http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/screw_cardio_four_complexes_for_a_shredded_physique)

and really like the methodology behind it. I am trying to decide if I should take a circuit/tabata/‘crossfit-esqe’ approach or stick with more traditional methods in my endeaver.

I am 26, about 260lb (down from 275 a month or two ago) at 6’2" and have a 38-40" waist (so certainly not a muscular 260).

I play in a few Ice Hockey leagues, so it would be nice to get stronger/function, but its a pretty low level of play, with other old guys, so I don’t prefer functional to ‘looking good naked’ as they say.

My ‘gym’ is a treadmill, elliptical, med ball, and dumbells from 10-50lb. I do not have room to add more (squat racks/bench) so the ‘crossfit’ or circuit/body weight approach was appealing, but if I need to get to a real gym, so be it.

The article suggests adding these circuits into your normal routine on an off day, but these things are hard (good!) and I’m worried about doing too much too soon. I’ve been doing the Waterbury Complex if that makes any difference.

On the other hand, I see articles like the Scott Abel one suggesting a 3 workouts per day approach (in his actor example) so maybe I just need to suck it up?

On the last hand (so to speak) I’ve heard ‘do cardio in the morning, lift at night, every day’…

So I guess I’m a little confused. I’m sure any would work better than what I’m doing now (procrastinating and researching incessantly…) but I’d like to go down the best path possible and will dedicate as much time as it takes (even if its 3x a day, 7 days a week)[/quote]

If you’re worried about recovery it’s probably better to put them as a separate session on your training days and do lower intensity cardio on your off days. Otherwise your off days aren’t really off.

#3

Thanks Conorh!
So maybe something like the complexes in the morning and lifting at night on an ‘on day’ and just light cardio on an off-day?

#4

i didnt really get your whole plan so to speak, but i would say first thing that u need to do is to get your basrline strength up, then after that try adding in more endurance work. also i feel like you shouldnt be lift at night and doing cardio in the morning, but if u feel like you want to lose weight fast then go ahead n do moderate intensity cardio in the morning, but if i were u i would stay away from training 3x day until u get your endrunace level up

reason i wouldnt lift at night n then do cario in the morning is because im not interested in losing weight

#5

What’s your previous training experience?

#6

This may not have been the answer you were looking for, but what I got from your post is that you are looking to cut fat (which you didn’t specifically mention, but I deduced from the ‘look good naked’ + ‘chubby 260’ comments), would like some conditioning improvements (but they’re really only a tertiary goal) and are willing to dedicate as much time as possible to do this in the most time-efficient manner.

So, diet is important. I like the Anabolic diet. There’s a decent thread over in the Supps forum. Carb cycling also comes highly recommended, and you’re familiar with this because you’ve spent the last twelve days digging through T-Nations ‘most-infamous’ articles like every poster in this forum should. They work on the same principles (kinda). I recommend the AD because it’s better for guys with more fat than muscle to lose.

No, really, diet is important. Really.

Training is also important. I recommend shamelessly stealing a cookie-cutter program. CT’s ‘destroying fat’ and CW’s ‘Waterbury Summer Project’ come to mind. Both will increase your conditioning… some. But then again, conditioning came in last place anyways, so… maybe you didn’t clearly elucidate your priorities.

If you really need to make your own program (some guys just do), go read MrPopular’s ‘Best of T-Nation’ thread in the BB forum, and then do what big guys did to cut fat. It’s more ‘traditional’, but it also has a proven track-record of success. I argue against the circuit/xfit/cross-train idea because it doesn’t sound like you’re experienced enough to accurately guage how you also need to adjust your food/recovery patterns in order to get best effects out of it. You probably also aren’t really good at planning progression, which is another thing to consider when dealing with the above mentioned training ideas.

So do what other people have done; I mean, it worked for them, right? That’s my two cents. It may not be optimal, but if it takes you an extra four weeks to get to your goals… I mean, in the grand scheme of things, that’s not really that much.

#7

Thanks Otep & others!

Previous training was varied. Always a chubby kid but lost 70+lb in high school (down to about 165) by eating very few (<1500) cals and running, a lot. Weight slowly creept back on through college (up to maybe 200) and then gained quickly with marriage and jobs stress, up to 275 about a month or so ago.

I’d done resistance training in HS/College, but the majority came after getting married. I was a 5x a week gym go-er (sometimes 2x a day with a cardio session in the AM) doing basic 3x12, splits. My strength increased drastically, but I saw next to no appearance results (probably due to eating more and lack of intensity.) and I’d usually get discouraged (or sick) & stop.
I 'd repeat this cycle about every 6-8 months. Get motivated, attack for a few months, see no changes, and then stop, ad naseum…
So I am familiar with most movements, training and working hard, and have read about everything I can find.

Recently, I’ve increased basic movement qty like taking stairs a few times a day to my office (4th floor) and going for walks over lunch. I’ve also cut way down on calories (probably not wise) by skipping breakfast, eating just a protein bar over lunch, and eating a large, but clean dinner. I’d estimate 1500-1750 cal/day with weekends increasing to probably 2k, with an odd ‘cheat’ meal occurring on the weekends. I am staying low-ish carbs by avoiding them when possible and obvious (HFCS!), but haven’t cut them completely.
I picked this approach because I’ve had success with it before, and have seen praise for the ‘Warrior Diet’…

The weight I’ve lost has come off quickly, but its starting to slow down now and the only consistent physical activity I am doing is Hockey. So I am looking to do things correctly now and get some advice from people who’ve done it!

I haven’t read the ‘Waterbury’s Summer Diet’ or CT’s ‘Destroying Fat’ (which I’m surprised about actually!) so I will start there if you still think it wise. I’ll also look into the anabolic diet as an alternative to my current one.

Thanks again and please feel free to post any other or anymore tips/tricks!

#8

‘The Waterbury Summer Project’.

‘War Room Strategies for Fat Loss’

Like I said before, Cookie-cutter programs are really useful if you’re busy/inexperienced, because you don’t think about the program, you just do it. If you don’t fear going back to the gym next workout, up the weight.

There’s a lot of wonderful things to be said about the AD, and most of it can be found in pages 5-30 of the original thread (google search mDragon My experience Anabolic diet), so I won’t repeat it. I think the main thing it did for me was allow me to have a routine, and plan routine breaks from that routine, which I found very liberating (ex: Breakfast is bacon and eggs every morning EXCEPT saturday, when it’s a giant bowl of pasta. Dinner is chicken salad every day EXCEPT saturday, when I down a carton of tortilla chips, salsa, and skirt steak fajitas). I would highly recommend it for fat loss.