I’ve been reading on another forum that some people are consuming COMPLEX carbs for their post workout meal.??? WTF I thought it was only one guy that was doing doing this but the whole board seems to be for it! Their talking about eating “grounded oats.” Now I always thought and still do belive that having simple carbs post workout was the way to go for the simple fact that it gets in the muscle ASAP. Can somebody help me on this? Thanx
Are you talking about grounded oats instead of surge? Some people refer to their meal after suge as a post workout meal and that is why I’m confused. For my meal after surge I usually eat complex carbs. I have tried high GI carbs and it just makes me fat. I think it has a lot to do with how good your insulin sensitivity is.
The Bomber is talking about the immediate post-training meal (i.e. the ground oats plus protein powder in lieu of Surge or a similar derivative).
I know that JB is working on some data from his lab showing that Surge helps with markers of recovery from exercise.
That said, I can definitely see the use of whole-food carbohydrate sources immediately after training, particularly when one is consuming a low-carbohydrate diet. If you’re only consuming carbs once per day, you might as well eat them!
Timbo is right the meal right aftert your training session. From a response that I got off of another forum “the reason why people have simple carbs is to spike the insulin however an oatmeal/protein mix spikes the insulin just as much.”
Bomber, I have yet to see that data that your fellow forumites are claiming to have or see. I would definitely be interested in seeing where they got that data from. If you could get a hold of it, I’d be apprecative. I’m not casting doubts whatsoever, I’m just an eager beaver to learn:-)
I’m not so much into the theoretical aspects of this as Timbo is, but from a practical/experience viewpoint, I have yet to see anyone who made better gains using complex carbs immediately post-workout versus something like Surge.
Also, this doesn’t even begin to address the point of recovery during a workout, when sipping Surge is very helpful. I think it would be a lot more difficult (although definitely not impossible) to carry a bowl full of oats into the gym with you and eat that - assuming that it hit you quickly enough to have any positive effect in the first place.
The point about eating one’s carbs while dieting is a good one, but I don’t think that it has to be an either/or proposition. You can have your Surge during and/or immediately after your workout, then eat a carb meal 45 minutes or so later, and not affect your fat loss in the vast majority of cases. I find it hard to imagine a case (other than maybe someone who is already fantasically low and preparing for a physique contest - and maybe not even then) where doing this intelligently would really have a negative impact on one’s fatloss.
Bottom line: I think the guys on the other forum are wrong.
Here is a PM this guy sent me…
The effects of simple-carbohydrate (CHO)- and complex-CHO-rich diets on skeletal muscle glycogen content were compared. Twenty male marathon runners were divided into four equal groups with reference to dietary consumption: depletion/simple, depletion/complex, nondepletion/simple, and nondepletion/complex. Subjects consumed either a low-CHO (15% energy [E] intake), or a mixed diet (50% CHO) for 3 days, immediately followed by a high-CHO diet (70% E intake) predominant in either simple-CHO or in complex-CHO (85% of total CHO intake) for another 3 days. Skeletal muscle biopsies and venous blood samples were obtained one day prior to the start of the low-CHO diet or mixed diet (PRE), and then again one day after the completion of the high-CHO diet (POST). The samples were analysed for skeletal muscle glycogen, serum free fatty acids (FFA), insulin, and lactate and blood glucose. Skeletal muscle glycogen content increased significantly (p less than 0.05) only in the nondepletion/simple group. When groups were combined, according to the type of CHO ingested and/or utilization of a depletion diet, significant increases were observed in glycogen content. Serum FFA decreased significantly (p less than 0.05) for the nondepletion/complex group only, while serum insulin, blood glucose, and serum lactate were not altered. It is concluded that significant increases in skeletal muscle glycogen content can be achieved with a diet high in simple-CHO or complex-CHO, with or without initial consumption of a low-CHO diet.
When I’m cutting with T-Dawg, I use coffee pre-workout and then post-workout use low-GI sources, often fruits immediately after the workout. My rationale is that the caffeine and BCAAs will get me the high insulin spike and the fructose will aid deposition of the carbs in the liver. The muscles get the glucose in the bloodstream. For weight workouts, I’ll eat a small amount of pretzles or smarties immediately before the workout.
Bomber…Get me the citation for that article. It says absolutely nothing about the results of the study! All it says is the authors’ interpretation of the findings. We need numbers, baby, numbers!
Also, you’re looking at carbohydrate intake at 70% of total kcals over the course of 3 days.
Can this be equated to one meal?