T Nation

Complete Steroid Newbie - Question


#1

I never used steroids in the past, but I’m curious and sort of interested. Is it possible to take like a smaller dose of steroids, and just speed up the gains but not hardcore like bodybuilders, and also avoiding any side effects?

edit I found this quote in an article I just read: “You can take large dosages and get big, but you can also take smaller dosages and go for that shredded fitness model look. The muscular size you obtain from steroid usage is largely dependent on the dosage and your genetics.” The article also says fitness models often take steroids so they can stay very lean all-year round without the negative effects of having very low body-fat all the time.

Is that true? If so, how would I go about starting usage? What’s a good one to start with as a 100% steroid newbie? Here’s a couple pics, one of me, and one of my goal:

images removed

I just want to be able to reach that goal physique faster. If I take a smaller dosage, can I get to that physique faster, but at the same time avoiding any negative side effects?

Also, once I achieve that goal physique, and I stop taking steroids, will those gains stay?

I also read that testosterone-version of steroids are only usable with injections, is this true?


Where Does DC Training Fall in the Following Spectrum?
#2

Generally speaking, without continued used of steroids cycled on and off, gains will gradually be lost over time.

I have no idea as to the credibility of the article that you have found, but i imagine fitness models would generally use fast acting injectables, dry orals and diuretics. The doses will vary depending on the individual and how much they get from their genetics at a certain dose. Diet is the key to the overall size and look.

The model above could very well be natural. He doesn’t have a lot of muscle mass and the picture is edited.

You need to realise that steroids will not get you to your goals at the moment - You need to learn a lot more about diet and training and do it for many years before then considering this. They are not magic and will do nothing for you at the moment and may not even be needed for you goals.

You could make a post in the diet and training forums on this site and ask for some advice.


#3

Try training and eating correctly for a few years…


#4

Ok, complete newbie… and you want to be shredded? Have you had any blood work? Do you have low T? You need to figure that out first. If you don’t, stay the hell away from steroids. I’m still a “newbie” and I only started as my blood work came back at 237 T and then 136 T. (Of course, I’m 41 years old too and done with having kids.)

My point is, unless you never want kids, don’t start on steroids. Yes, there are things to “help” you stay fertile, but I wouldn’t risk it personally. That shredded look in the picture started out with a proper diet and training (weight lifting). I’d start there if you don’t have low T and do that for several years. “Abs are created in the kitchen.”

Good luck and keep asking questions and reading up on steroids.


#5

mwhities, I get where you’re coming from, but that’s definitely NOT where to start. All that’s gonna do is mess with his head. There’s a poster on this site who recently found out he had very low T. He achieved about a 380 bench press, 500 squat, and 600 deadlift with low T. So there’s zero reason for this guy to get tested unless he’s got actual SYMPTOMS of low T.

Anyway, back to the original topic at hand…

Start working out. Seriously man, this is garbage. You’re not a ‘steroid newbie’. You’re a guy who doesn’t lift weights and wants a short cut to looking like a model.

I’ll also address your specific questions: 1. There is not a chance in the world that you can use steroids from the point you’re at now, and reach your goal physique, without experiencing negative side effects. It won’t happen, mostly because it’s gonna take too much time. Even with steroids, it’s gonna take years to make that change. If you start using steroids now, that means you’ll have years of steroid use behind you when you get there. Nobody goes on for years and avoids side effects completely. Literally nobody.

  1. No. You do not keep your gains when you stop, not for long anyway. Too many people underestimate what a commitment steroids are. When you start, assume it’s for life.

  2. If you don’t even know the answer to your last question, then you’re as lazy as you seem. It’s pretty much the easiest question in the world to find an answer to. You need to do A LOT more reading. But more importantly, you need to do a lot more training and eating.

This type of post is literally the saddest kind of post we see on here, because it rarely ends well. The best we can hope for is that our advice pushes steroid use out of your mind completely for a looooong time. In all likelihood, ‘forever’ would be best.


#6

No I sort of had a change of heart too after some thinking. Also, to clarify, I have been lifting for about a year, but you’re right I just want faster results. I tried creatine in the past but it didn’t do much noticeably. I do put in the work in the gym, and I count calories etc, but just want something that will speed up gains. I think I’m gonna try maybe one cycle of Ostarine to see how it goes. I agree with you though that steroids don’t sound like the thing for me.


#7

You’re being quite dense, sir. Stop thinking supplements. I CAN SEE YOUR BODY. I know your workouts suck, and I know your diet sucks. You haven’t learned what you think you have in either regard.

Ostarine has the potential to suppress testosterone production. Are you aware of this? Most people don’t talk about this, because most people talking about it in forums are making money off the product in some way. It’s not a good product for most people. Bloodwork has proven this to be true.

Are you counting macros, or just calories? If you’re just counting calories, you might as well be doing nothing.

What training program are you following?


#8

I do something similar to 5x5 starting strength, i count macros, eat chicken and brown rice that i make myself along with blended oats, milk, etc, along with other foods. Also, it wasn’t 1-year consistently, I had times off where I would lose muscle and/or not gain, that’s probably why it doesn’t seem as if I’ve been working out for a year from that pic.

I am aware Ostarine has the potential to suppress test, but I was told (by someone who doesn’t work for or sell Ostarine) that it can be reversed through PCT, no?


#9

I’ll give you my more complete thoughts on Ostarine, since you seem very interested in it.

First, I’ve never heard of anyone getting substantial results out of it. It would be WAAAY more popular if it actually worked well.

Second, yes, that’s how PCT works. But the PCT process is imperfect. It’s usually successful, but it’s not always. And that’s assuming you actually know what you’re doing, rather than following the really terrible advice that’s out there. PCT is, without a doubt, the most poorly comprehended aspect out there as far as PEDS are concerned.

But basically, here’s what happens. You run an Ostarine cycle, and let’s say you actually DO make some iprovements over, say, a 6 week cycle. Then it’s time for PCT. So in PCT, you are no longer using the strength drug, and at the same time, your testosterone production sucks. So over the course of the 4-6 week PCT, you may lose all of, if not more than, the gains you made using the drug. That doesn’t sound like a good time to me. Does that appeal to you?

It sounds like your diet MIGHT be ok. How many calories are you eating? How consistent are they? And what percentage of your calories come from protein?

My best guess is what I said initially, that your training likely sucks. You indicated that you weren’t consistent with working out. That’s why you have zero results. How many weeks out of that year do you think you actually trained?


#10

I’m eating 2600-2700 calories very consistently everyday unless on days where I eat definitely more than that, like going out to eat, and pigging out. Hmm not sure what percentage comes from protein but i’d say its .7-.8 grams per pound of bodyweight.

If I had to estimate, I think it comes out to around 8 months of training, 4 months of breaks total.


#11

This is fantastic.

  • A “year” of training that includes about 8 months of training, 4 months of breaks.
  • A current program that’s “similar to 5x5 starting strength” (OP, those are two different programs, neither of which is especially well suited for your goal physique)
  • A guy who (within a year of training that included some breaks) has already tried creatine and concluded that it didn’t do much for him (presumably because he didn’t have THE GAINZ by his next workout)

OP, your problems are mostly related to impatience and a lack of understanding about…well, pretty much everything that you’ve commented on so far. Building significant muscle takes YEARS of work, not a few months with a couple breaks scattered in, but some magic supplements to make up for a lack of dedication and commitment.

flipcollar has already given you some fair but tough love, but it has to be reiterated. Commit 100 percent to a program, eat more steak and vegetables, start reading more articles from this site just to build a basic level of understanding.

I’m a little torn on the program I would recommend. On one hand, fitness models don’t work out with 5x5, and I think it’s rather poorly suited to your goals. On the other, someone in your position really could gain a good bit of quality mass without doing anything fancy. But ultimately, whether you choose a bodybuilding split or 5x5 for your next 6 months of training will have a lot less to do with your success than the intensity you’ll put into that program. I’ve done barely anything besides deadlifts and some kettlebell odds and ends for the last couple of months and honestly, it’s been some of the best progress I’ve ever made, both from a strength standpoint as well as a physique standpoint.


#12

I appreciate the honest feedback. What type of workout program would give that type of physique in the picture I posted (and not other, bigger models, like Ulysses or something like that; that’s way too big for my taste).

Also, in contrast, what type of physique would 5x5 give?


#13

Before diving further into this, let’s get one thing straight: if you don’t also have your diet in order, the choice of program will be more or less irrelevant. Abs are (mostly) made in the kitchen, with some help from the gym.

As for training, rather than give a single answer, I suggest that you start reading some of the fine articles from the site archives to begin to wrap your brain around some of the key principles you should keep in mind when deciding how to train. Here’s a sampling to get you started:

One thing you may notice from reading all of this…there is no one magic scheme. Big and lean and impressive physiques can be built many different ways. “Doing 5x5” for the next few weeks probably isn’t going to hurt, so carry on with that while you start reading and learning. Maybe start a training log in that section of this website, where you can find tips on your goals from those who don’t poke their heads into the steroid forum…I don’t really belong here (as a non-AAS user) but I just can’t help commenting when I see threads like this. You don’t need steroids. You need a solid year of uninterrupted training and eating steak and vegetables.


#14

I just checked out the waterbury method and there’s something I’m confused about. I looked at the workout layout in the bottom and it says 1 min rest time for the exercises. I thought that short rest times like 1 min was only for high-rep lower weight workouts like 5x12? Whenever I read online, it says for higher weight lower rep workouts like 4x6, the rest should be around 3 min?

Also, I came across this article a while back, what do you think of it?


#15

" I thought that short rest times like 1 min was only for high-rep lower weight workouts like 5x12? Whenever I read online, it says for higher weight lower rep workouts like 4x6, the rest should be around 3 min?"

Well, now you have just “read online” a program that suggests 1 min rest for 10x3. So…this is precisely why you need to read more about some different training philosophies. You seem to have some “rules” in your head from a rather limited amount of reading / understanding.

Just to be clear, I wasn’t saying that any single one of those articles has the magic program for becoming a fitness model. Rather, I’m trying to illustrate that there’s a wide variety of training approaches (espoused by some very good coaches and authors) and it helps to have a basic foundation of knowledge. Now here’s your next lesson: if you have a question like the above, you are allowed to type things like “Waterbury 10x3” into the search function and see what you find! Maybe one of these will help illuminate further:

But the bigger point is…you should keep reading and learning. If you want to look like a fitness model, it also may behoove you to read some about how fitness models train. You also might read up on how men’s physique competitors (or even female figure athletes) train, as both are generally looking for an incredibly lean, athletic build rather than a mass-monster build.

It appears that you did a little looking of your own and found Waterbury’s set/rep article, which also is a good one. But you have got to stop thinking that one of these articles will have one single sentence which tells you everything you need to know. There are a hundred different ways to make progress from where you are now.


#16

ActivitiesGuy has already committed a lot of time to helping you. Very good stuff from him. I just have a few things to add.

Your question of ‘which program will give me the body I want’ is largely a poor question. If you look at the picture of the model in question, literally every muscle in his body is more developed than yours. So literally ANY weight training program can move you towards your goals.

Your problem is that you’re bogged down in minutia and preconceived notions. You think that some programs make you bigger/bulkier than others, which is simply not true. You have muscle, and you have fat. You can build muscle and you can reduce fat. Those are the only 2 things you can do.

If you have a particular goal physique, you should train as hard as you can, across your entire body. When you find that a bodypart has reached the goal development, you can train it less frequently, as the rest of your body catches up. But until then, you push everything hard. You will never, ever be bigger than you want to be. It does not happen.

The program you pick doesn’t really matter. If it is an established program, and you have the time available to perform it to completion, and you attack that program with intensity every single day, you’ll see results. There’s no magic to it other than that. For myself, I don’t even train for aesthetics at all. I train for power, speed, and strength. But you know what happens when you do that, and you keep your bodyfat low? You end up looking great too.


#17

i agree that most people who are not reaching their goals do not read or learn enough and causes failure,
but
i find that alot {not all} of high level people leave out parts of their training,“oh i don’t count that” sometimes they assume everybody does the parts they leave out or they don’t tell how much they really do,trying to sell you something
part of learning i find is going to the gym find the people who do what you want to do watch them train,do not be a douche about watching though,if they let you train with them sometimes throws off rest times weights used the little things that might matter

i am constantly amazed about why so many people don’t understand this


#18

Stop over analyzing.

Are you a high performance athlete? No I don’t think so.
Are you a bodybuilder? No.

You are getting sucked into the tiniest little details.

Just some advice mate. You obviously have cash to burn if you want to do steroids. Spend that money rather on a personal trainer to help GUIDE you as you seem to need it. Let him draw up a nutrition and training plan and try follow that. Also make sure he is legit and not just some Jacked guy at the gym.

I know people here may disagree with me but if it works its not stupid advice. Even if its a bit costly.


#19

I like how you think you are accidentally going to turn into Ulysses by changing your training program, my god!

Please train a little bit rather than being on here. I have had T problems from a long time that i recently discovered, I have trained with those problems for 3 and a half years and have more gains than you. You need to fix your training and eat properly! It’s not given to you. I’ll be very honest with you, i go to my gym, i see people working out without a scheme of things or planning, just working what they want, how they want. They work very very hard, make no mistake about it, but giving 100% on something which is not useful is going to deliver less than 60% effort on something you have planned or you know that works. Don’t get me started on the diet, I am nowhere close to the physique level guys on here have but i can still tell you, diet is everything. The same people who are in my gym working so hard, i look much bigger and leaner than most of them(and i have low T) and i seem to learn that a new guy is running a cycle everyday, these guys don’t even know what a PCT is!!!

Educate yourself, train hard and smart, eat well. Then re think 5-10 years down the line, what you have achieved, how did you do it, and what more you want! Then make a decision on gear, with your amount of training experience, and to put it lightly, very bad grasp of how things work, please do not risk your life on 3-5 kgs of muscle. When the time is right, you can make an informed decision as to whether this is a path you want to follow the rest of your life.