T Nation

Complete AAS Ratio List?

Anyone have a complete updated aas ratio list ? Like this one
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These lists are pretty readily available with a google search.

I don’t really consider these ratios to play out in real life. They can be a good reference, but some of the numbers are just outrageous to believe. Take Halo for example Its ratio is 850/1900. In theory then a dose of 55 mg a week should give the same results as 1000 mg of test. In the real world it isn’t even close.

Additionally, a drug like mast with low androgenic rating is known to be a killer on the hair line for those predisposed to MPB.

I believe these ratios come from a study on mice in which they were given these drugs and then their prostates and quadriceps muscles were measured.

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Yea it’s rodent models… The anabolic ratio is determined by a compounds ability to elicit a hypertrophic response within the soleus/levator ani muscles and the androgenic element is based upon a compounds ability to stimulate an increase in prostatic weight. Both ratios are in comparison to testosterone.

As rats have differing metabolic/elimination pathways these models are MASSIVELY flawed. mesterolone for instance should be more anabolic than testosterone, but has affinity for the 3b-HSD enzyme within skeletal muscle wherein it’s broken down into metabolites of which have literally no anabolic activity within skeletal muscle.

yea, same with primo (so I hear), I suppose they probably have a high affinity for the AR present within the scalp.

One thing to also note, is that the impact on the weight of the prostate may or may not be a good indicator of how androgenic something is. Maybe one drug is very androgenic in regards to the prostate, but not to MPB, or acne?

Yes, the notion of “androgenicity” covers a spectrum. But something can be rather androgenic and at the same time more tissue selective etc.

I did but most of the lists that i saw were like from 2012 2014,probably outdated,and didn’t find one complete

Yeah the ratio is based from mice studies,but hey gonna start somewhere

yes, you have to start somewhere. But I highly recommend starting somewhere else.

Talk to people and read forums. This is one area where I believe the ‘bro-science’ is more useful than the numbers, because it’s based on actual human experiences. If a particular compound looks awesome on paper, but you can’t find anyone talking about how awesome it is on forums, it’s likely not that great for humans.

Flip, have you ever run DHB (1-test cyp)? This is one is an odd ball that doesn’t line up exactly with your post. Hardly anything on the forums about it, but when you do find stuff it is overwhelming positive. I don’t know of anyone on T-nation who has used and discussed it, but I have found other forums, and the praise for the compound is pretty great IMO. Lots of searching to find forums with info on it though.

I mean I still apply the same approach… but with some caution. I don’t use things that nobody is talking about, the upside just isn’t there with anything. Plenty of tried and true options out there for me. I’d just wait until it’s being used commonly. If I was inclined to try it, I’d still be relying on user feedback rather than anabolic/androgenic ratios, as long as the androgenic part isn’t sky high. THAT could give me pause, but that’s about it. From what I read, it’s like a 200:100 AB:AR ratio. so, cool. that’s within a range of things I would do, lol. I mean hell, I’ve used halo and from what I remember that has crazy numbers.

I have heard that the 200:100 is a bit off with DHB. People say it is less androgenic than test which also has a AR of 100. I have a friend who has run it, and likes it, but he also has done pretty much everything I have heard of.