T Nation

Complete 180 in Diet Philosophy, Need Critique


#1

So I've basically always been clean bulking, and for the first time ever, I'm looking to lose some body fat.

I'm 6'3, 240, 17-18% BF right now. In the next 8 weeks, I want to maintain weight and get to around 12-14% BF. I'm also running test prop and var.

My previous diet was 5500 cals/day, 50% carbs 30% protein 20% fat. Now, I'm going to drop to 3500 cals/day, 35% protein,40% carbs, 20% fat. I've worked out a 3 day split for my diet as to avoid getting bored with it and being more inclined to cheat.

Day 1:
BREAKFAST (also pre-workout)
1/2 cup oatmeal
1/2 cup mixed berries
1 TBSP brown sugar
5.3 ounces zero fat greek yogurt
13 oz whole milk
12 oz chocolate milk

POST WORKOUT:
Home made shake -
2 TBSP Peanut Butter
one scoop protein
10 oz whole milk
1/2 banana
1/2 cup oatmeal (ground up)
creatine

MEAL #1:
8 oz Chicken Breast
1 cup rice
veggies (I don't count carbs from veggies)
one scoop protein

MEAL #2:
8 oz Chicken Breast
1 cup rice
veggies (I don't count carbs from veggies)
8 oz skim milk

MEAL #3:
6 oz Turkey Breast
veggies
8 oz skim

BEFORE BED:
Casein protein
Fish oil pills

DAY 2

BREAKFAST (also pre-workout)
1/2 cup oatmeal
1/2 cup mixed berries
1 TBSP brown sugar
5.3 ounces zero fat greek yogurt
13 oz whole milk
12 oz chocolate milk

POST WORKOUT:
Home made shake -
2 TBSP Peanut Butter
one scoop protein
10 oz whole milk
1/2 banana
1/2 cup oatmeal (ground up)
creatine

MEAL #1:
10 oz Pork Loin back ribs
13 oz baked potato w/ salt and margarine
veggies

MEAL #2:
8 oz tilapia
1 cup rice
veggies

MEAL #3:
4 oz tuna
2 oz plain greek yogurt
2 slices whole grain bread
veggies

BEFORE BED:
Casein
Fish oil

DAY 3:

BREAKFAST (also pre-workout)
1/2 cup oatmeal
1/2 cup mixed berries
1 TBSP brown sugar
5.3 ounces zero fat greek yogurt
13 oz whole milk
12 oz chocolate milk

POST WORKOUT:
Home made shake -
2 TBSP Peanut Butter
one scoop protein
10 oz whole milk
1/2 banana
1/2 cup oatmeal (ground up)
creatine

MEAL #1:
8 oz Chicken Breast
13 oz Baked potato with salt and margarine
veggies

MEAL #2:
6 oz Turkey Breast
13 oz baked potato w salt and margarine
veggies

MEAL #3:
10 oz Pork Loin back ribs
veggies

BEFORE BED:
Casein
Fish oil

I'm not sure if I have enough carbs around my training window, can anyone help me here? Also,should I keep it like I have it with no carbs after meal 2, or should I split more evenly throughout the entire day?

Or should I add more carbs around training window and eat less throughout the day?

Thanks for the help guys.


#2

I’m sure you’ll get excellent advice on your specific questions shortly, but on the overall 8 week recomp plan (you plan both to lose fat and gain muscle, while using anabolic steroids) I’d like to suggest you change the plan to 4 weeks of cutting at about 2500 cal/day and then 4 weeks of clean bulking at for example 4500 cal/day.

This would be the same total caloric intake over 8 weeks as you were planning, but should give better results.


#3

If I were to go that route, would I want to bulk first, or cut first?


#4

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
I’m sure you’ll get excellent advice on your specific questions shortly, but on the overall 8 week recomp plan (you plan both to lose fat and gain muscle, while using anabolic steroids) I’d like to suggest you change the plan to 4 weeks of cutting at about 2500 cal/day and then 4 weeks of clean bulking at for example 4500 cal/day.

This would be the same total caloric intake over 8 weeks as you were planning, but should give better results.[/quote]

Bill, would you mind expanding on why you recommend this? Would your recommendation apply to natural guys with a similar goal as well?


#5

The main reason is results from doing it in that pattern, or as for things that may explain why it does, it’s even more true with anabolic steroid cycles that gains can be much faster after dieting than otherwise, and that caloric excess can be efficiently turned to muscle gain. Further, it’s easier to gain the first couple of pounds of muscle than later ones and this can occur on a fat-reducing recomp, whereas substantially more gains tend not to happen on caloric deficit.

Here we’re assuming that 3500 cal would be a caloric deficit, since fat was expected to be lost.

With the above kind of split, the first smaller part of gains can still largely be accomplished on the greater deficit which is still allowing 13 cal/day per pound LBM, and then there’s 4 weeks of much faster gains, at the point where gains become harder.

Anyway, various things have been tried, and generally it works best to split in some way, which doesn’t have to be this one, of cutting more rapidly (but not more severely than above) to lose fat, and eating more than 3500 to gain muscle than it does to try to do both at the same time.


#6

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The main reason is results from doing it in that pattern, or as for things that may explain why it does, it’s even more true with anabolic steroid cycles that gains can be much faster after dieting than otherwise, and that caloric excess can be efficiently turned to muscle gain. Further, it’s easier to gain the first couple of pounds of muscle than later ones and this can occur on a fat-reducing recomp, whereas substantially more gains tend not to happen on caloric deficit.

Here we’re assuming that 3500 cal would be a caloric deficit, since fat was expected to be lost.

With the above kind of split, the first smaller part of gains can still largely be accomplished on the greater deficit which is still allowing 13 cal/day per pound LBM, and then there’s 4 weeks of much faster gains, at the point where gains become harder.

Anyway, various things have been tried, and generally it works best to split in some way, which doesn’t have to be this one, of cutting more rapidly (but not more severely than above) to lose fat, and eating more than 3500 to gain muscle than it does to try to do both at the same time.[/quote]

mind = blown

I love you, Bill.


#7

[quote]Bill Roberts wrote:
The main reason is results from doing it in that pattern, or as for things that may explain why it does, it’s even more true with anabolic steroid cycles that gains can be much faster after dieting than otherwise, and that caloric excess can be efficiently turned to muscle gain. Further, it’s easier to gain the first couple of pounds of muscle than later ones and this can occur on a fat-reducing recomp, whereas substantially more gains tend not to happen on caloric deficit.

Here we’re assuming that 3500 cal would be a caloric deficit, since fat was expected to be lost.

With the above kind of split, the first smaller part of gains can still largely be accomplished on the greater deficit which is still allowing 13 cal/day per pound LBM, and then there’s 4 weeks of much faster gains, at the point where gains become harder.

Anyway, various things have been tried, and generally it works best to split in some way, which doesn’t have to be this one, of cutting more rapidly (but not more severely than above) to lose fat, and eating more than 3500 to gain muscle than it does to try to do both at the same time.[/quote]

Very interesting, thanks. I had seen other coaches on T-Nation recommend getting lean before “bulking” (e.g. Dan John, Shadowpro) so was curious.

I assume without the steroid cycle one isn’t going to gain any muscle on the cut, but the “rebound” effect of caloric excess after dieting might still apply?

That’s what I’m aiming for now (after many months of gradual weight gain). The only thing is that at a rate of 1-1.5 lbs fat loss per week, it can take quite a while to get truly lean! A lot more than 4 weeks. In my case, at least.


#8

Yes, there still can be a post-dieting improvement, but generally no fast gains when going up to something that’s still less than you’d been used to, as with the OP.

(He’s been used to 5500 cal/day, and presumably had reached a point of only very slow further gains, and in the above plan would be going back up to 4500. Under natural conditions going back to that intake, the best outcome likely would be merely restoration of some of the muscle lost in the cut, rather than actually increasing over the starting point, as anabolic steroids can make possible.)


#9

Got it. Thanks!


#10

It sounds like steroids might make it easier for me to efficiently build muscle.