Competiton Dieting

Bigger Stronger Leaner Competitive Bodybuilding
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John and Erik, thanks again for the help. I guess I am going to ditch the gylcerol, and experiment with the Hot Stuff to see if it yields a favorable result.

So John, for carb loading you are saying I should eat 7g per kg, so I am like 50 kg or so, so that’s 350 g of carbs! That is a lot! What should I eat? Also, you are saying I should start with this amount, and then decrease it, if I feel to full? What are the signs that I should cut it? I should add that while dieting, I had some higher carb days, when I ate about 100-120g of carbs, and still felt flat. This was for two days at most, and I always trained hard on these days. I don’t know if such info helps you in helping me? Erik, feel free to offer your opinion, too!

By the way, I’m finishing my second day of depleting. The depletion workouts are HELL!!! Anyway, I am following the program where I load the last 3 days prior to the shoot, as that is Aceto’s advice, and the foundation of my plan. Is loading the last 3 days common practice? As I said, it worked well for me in the past, and people tell me to not get fancy. Also, my shoot is Friday, but I just translate the messages, since everyone does things assuming it’s on a Saturday.

I feel good knowing that I may eat more carbs during loading than I had anticipated.

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John, interesting observations on the diuretic effect upon cessation of glycerol. in hindsight, i have to say that that could be occurring with competitors i have worked with. like i said, some people noticed positive effects, others have not, in my opinion, its too uncertain to even try, and your data supports that its a waste of time. John, I have not competed myself, but have worked with numerous competitors and have been able to fine tune my approach to the final week. John, having worked with mostly natural athletes i have favored a tues, wed, thurs carbup with friday low carb again (natural diuretic effect) it also allows me to keep the water up during the carb up, as opposed to carbing friday as well while at the same time cutting water, which wouldnt provide as good a carbup. how do you approach it?

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Princess, i gave you my carb, protein and fat recommendations with an example for the carb up already. one note on carbing up to the day before the show, if you are not using diuretics(i dont mean natural diuretics) i think your changes of being really dry are less than if you did it as i mentioned earlier. you said you were using the same approach as last time (apprx 75g), im afraid that could not have worked for you. you would get no effect from carbing up on a whopping 75g for the day.

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Erik, Ive never tried the depletion on friday after the 3 day carb up. Next time I diet (I havent competed in a while but I do a contest diet 1x per year just to keep myself lean and also to remember what my trainees go thru), I may try this. Physiologically, it seems sound but the natural diuretic effect of the depletion on that last day makes me nervous that the BB will flatten out again. I think BP might drop and veins will hide again but if you’ve had success with it, it’s worth a trial run well before the show to see how it may work. Do me a favor. If you get a chance to play with my glycerol idea, give it a shot. It will help to get several viewpoints on it’s use on like t, w, th. But again, this may not work as you may have the same effect as with the friday carb depletion. Anyway, me and my guys/girls follow a standard wed post workout carb-up till friday evening and then light meals all day sat. I much prefer bringing in my athletes DRY than trying to bring them in full and ruining conditioning. One other way to get them full (if they are not opposed to drugs) is insulin use during the carb up. Ive seen guys pack on 10lbs+ during a carb up and stay dry.
Princess, yes, that’s alot of carbs. But guess what, that’s what you need. Anything less and you will not maximize glycogen stores. And your body wont know the diff between 0 and 75g per day. What’s this photo shoot for anyway?

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JMB, could the athlete use ALA instead of insulin for the carb up? And do you reccomend it be taken 30 min or an hour before the meals. Thanks.

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Erik, all this talk about depleting on carbs has me wondering if my method is sound. I have generally followed a rule of 30 carbs on days 1 and 2, then 90 carbs on day 3 and 4, then back to 30 carbs on 5 and 6, and back to 90 carbs on 7 and 8, 40 carbs on day 9, 20 carbs on 10 and 11, 220 carbs on 12, 320 carbs on 13, and 14, with day 15 being target day. I am wondering if going up to 90 on those cycles during the 1st part of my 2 week cutting up cycle is wise and perhaps reduces the benefit on depleting, and maybe I should not cycle up to 90, but stay around 30 for the 1st half before carbing up. However, it does make it more comfortable when I have those 90 carb days interspirsed, but if it is defeating the purpose, then I will need to stop that. Also, when would you suggest I start using Taraxatone on the above 15 day cycle? Thanks again for all your help.

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Erik, I wasn’t sure if your food selection for carb loading still applied, if I was NOT going to deplete on the final day. So I am assuming it does, so I went out and got the foods you reccomended, and I plan to follow your advice. However, I am afraid to deplete on the last day, I’m scheduled to just load the final 3 days, I think next time I may try the depletion. However, reducing my carbs on the final day, if I feel too full, is a lot like depletion, right??

My next question is about water. When should I reduce it, and when should I try to drink as little as possible. While depleting I have been drinking 3 gallons. Also, I plan to start taking Taraxatone on Wednesday morning. At this time I was also thinking of adding Chromium and Alpha Lipoic Acid before my meals. (Remember, I am shooting to peak on FRIDAY)

John, if you know these answers I would love to hear from you, also.

Thanks very much guys! I made it through depleting, assuming I make it into my bed!

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Hi Dan, what are your current stats? And what kind of carb intake have you been at prior to this two week phase of yours? You can even deplete quite well at 90gms depending on what you were previously at (not to mention a killer full body depletion workout would do the trick as well)You wont need to take so long to deplete; its unnecessary punishment. like i said, depending on how low your carbs are, you can deplete (with the workout) and upregulate the required enzymes in a few days. also i highly doubt your carb intake you have posted for carbing up will be sufficient for you, but then again I dont know your stats. Let me know! Regarding Taraxatone, I’d say bring it in the either the beginning of the 2nd day out or the evening of the 3rd day out. That way you are still drinking water when you introduce it. As an aside, an interesting thing (not sure if this will work with OTC diuretics) that works well is to introduce the diuretic wednesday and then from thursday through to the day of the show you only drink what you urinate out. in essence you simply replace whats lost on those days. yeah you have to measure your urine. the diuretic effect occurs the first night and early part of the next day and this allows your body to get used to pulling water out from under the skin. i do believe it depends on what diuretics are being used.

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Princess, depending on how low you go on friday its a depletion yes. you just have to be in the mirror a lot to know when you find the proper blend of full and dry. too much either way and you are either and youll appear flat or watery.you’re drinking 12L a day? wow! is this for this friday? id say you dont need that much at all. you are carbing tues through thursday correct? id cut that down to 4L or so during your first day based on your carb intake and then go to 2L on wednesday and 1L up until about 18hrs out from your time (some will cut at 24) its a learning experience and is hard to give cookie cutter advice without seeing what you look like. your condition could change the recommendations, but this is a starting point for you. at that 18-24hr point, just SIPto get your food down. also on the day before drop the sodium. just dont add any and get your protien from beef and chicken primarily. Your diuretic timing seems good. I wouldnt bother with chromium but if you do use ALA use a lot. one athlete i worked didnt use ALA and during his carbup went up 14lbs retaining about 5 of it. the next year we used ALA and he gained about 7 and kept about 3-4 if i remember correctly.

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Erik, I am 185 at 6’1", and my bf% usually stays below 10%. I watch my carbs most of the time, I generally stay around 200-300 and then a day of cheating a week usually with generally eating what I want, and some times a day of 30 carbs in the middle of the week or right after my cheat day to psycologically get me back in line. Every couple of months I will go on the cutting phase I previously described just to keep my self in line and not let anything get out of hand. Thanks again for anything you can add now that you know some of my stats.

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Erik, with regard to that comment you made about using otc diatretics. I have always been perplexed by what my water intake should be on these, as the instructions always say take with 8 to 16 oz. of water, yet I have also been told to cut back on my water intake. So I was not sure if the diatretics needed the water intake to actually work, or taking diaretics without the usual water intake would work better. Any thoughts on that? Also, could you elaborate on your comment regarding depleting by taking enzymes after a full body workout. What enzymes are you speaking of, when, and how much?

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Erik or John, what is the best way to try and peak 2 Saturday’s in a row. The 1st Saturday is an official paid photo shoot, the second Saturday is an event at the beach where “unofficial” pictures will be taken. Also, any thoughts on what is the best diet for the photo shoot day. I never quite know how best to eat given the hectic schedule and multiple location moves, given there generally is not a microwave available to bake potatoes. Are any of the meal replacement bars OK for “the day” or do they have too much sodium and/or sugar. Also, I heard that red wine is good for the photo shoot day as it can promote vascularity, if so, should it be red wine, or will white wine be OK. Actually, a little wine would help to relax and be more free on photo shoot day.

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Erik:

Damn you and your liters of water, I hate conversions! Just kidding, thanks for the advice, I will cut my water like you reccomended, once I can put it into gallons, or ounces.

You are correct about the days that I am loading carbs. I have followed your advice so far today, for the most part. I am eating 10 meals today, of aboout 40-50g of carbs each. I know this might not be quite as much as you reccomended, but it is a LOT more than I used last time. I am still feeling hungry, so I am going to eat close to this amount of carbs again tomorrow. I still feel quite flat. I am assuming that you approve of this plan?

I have cut the sodium out already, since I loaded it. I know everyone says NOT to load it, but I followed Acetos advice on it, and I thought ditching it in the middle of the loading process would cause even more problems.

It is hard drinking all this water, with all these carbs, so I am happy to cut it back. It’s also really hot here, so that makes it a little hard. For carbs today I started with a bagel, and since then I have been using grape juice, which I am pretty sure is dextrose. Now I am gonna have potatoes, brown rice, and rice cakes tonight, and continue that until afternoon tomorrow, when I will eat sweet potatoes and oatmeal. Is this a good plan? Also, you may not like this, but I got my protein today from whey and liquid egg whites, I just can’t eat chicken or tuna anymore!

Now for my next questions: How do I best use Preparation H on areas where I still have some water? Also, what is the best method of carb intake the morning of the shoot? What should I eat, and should I get up really early so I can take in a fair amount of carbs, but spread out the meals so my stomach isn't full???

I can’t wait until this is over, when all I have to ask is “What flavor of ice cream should I eat?”

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Hoping to keep this alive so that Erik or John will continue with some of their very helpful information on my last 3 posts. Thanks Erik and John for your input.

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Hi Dan. generally speaking your water needs to be systematically reduced over a period of a few days. I find it easiest to just keep cutting it in half and then only sip from 18-24hrs out. I didnt mean to TAKE enzymes; what I meant was that the enzymes involved in glycogen synthesis are temporarily upregulated. Also the numbers you gave me for your carb up do not coincide with your body weight. you will not get very full of that small amount. A good rule of thumb is 10g/kg LBM for the 1st 24hrs and 5g/kg LBM for the 2nd 24hrs.

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Princess, your first day is around 450 grams of carbs which I believe is pretty close to what you should be at. I wouldnt expect you to feel full after a day of carbing so Id caution you from repeating that amount on the second day. Id cut it in half. Cutting the sodium was a mistake. If you read what I wrote earlier, sodium will really improve your ability to carb up. It should not be reduced until the final day. Id restrict my protein intake to chicken and beef on the last day. No protein shakes or eggs or tuna. I know that Prep H is a skin diuretic but I dont have much experience with that. Id assume you just rub it on. Sorry I cant be more help there.

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Erik or John, any thoughts on how to peak 2 Saturdays in a row. Not sure if I should deplete carbs for Sunday - Wednesday, and then carb up again on Thursday - Saturday, any thoughts or suggestions. With regard to the amount of carbs, if I remember my conversions correctly, I am about 80 kg at 185 lbs so that means 800 grms of carbs the first 24 hours. I am assuming that has to be all clean carbs, potatoes, etc… Any suggestions on what other clean delicious exciting carbs to consume for 800 grms?

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Just keeping this alive in hopes that John or Erik will respond on trying to peak 2 Saturdays in a row.

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Guess I will try one more time to keep this alive and hopefully get a response from Erik or John.

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hey guys i found this old post and i thought with all this talk about contest prep lately i should bump it up.

it can help add to timbo’s and swolecat’s recent articles.