OK, to make a long story short after many years of extreme steroid usage i am cutting back dramatically. Most of you know my story. Anyway my doc has me on a measly 100mg of cypionat per week for now. The cool thing about him is he is totally cool with keeping me at the very high end of normal. Upon intital review of my labs he found absolutely no problems with my blood work…this is after 15 years of high level steroid usage. My liver ast was just slightly high he said that is probably the Cymbalta that i take for my depression and it was nothing to worry about. My comment to him was “well that speaks volumes to me about the overblown dangers of steroids…to which he reluctantly agreed.” The more interesting part is the discussion we had about the relationship between secondary hypogonadism and LH/FSH levels. He stated the following.
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Contrary to popular belief the LH and FSH levels in someone who is taking true replacement level dosages will be normal…that is how they titrate it.
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After getting the blood level stabilized at high normal then tests are done on the pituitary hormones to me sure primary hypogonadism is not the problem.
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Therefore this thouroughly supports the test taper theory…as you taper into normal blood level dosages even though it is from an outside source your body will begin to produce LH and FSH again and sitmulate the testes.
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I talked to him about this theory and he said yes there should not be any reason for a SERM unless some primary hypogonadism exists…the key is to reduce dosage slowly over a period of time, he suggested a step down to replacement level right away (100-200mg weekly) then a 10-15% reduction weekly thereafter until off.
My other little side experiment is as follows, alot of people want to know if they are taking a replacement dose of test as directed and add a healthy dose of nandrolone will it skew the tests? OK exactly one week ago i took my little 100mg of cyp and 600mg of deca…going to have blood drawn today to test my testosterone level…i will let you know how that works out.
Wow good work in 1) finding such a cool Dr and 2) having a Dr. back up the test taper theory. Not that I ever doubted Prisonier though.
Morepain,
Very interesting post.
I had a couple of questions?
What do you consider high level AAS use?
What was your longest cycle?
What is your age?
You could PM me if you wanted these kept confidential.
Keep us updated.
Max
Cycle??? My friend i have not been off anabolics for 15 years. On average i would say 1 gram per week minimum of combined drugs. At my worst i was taking 3-4 grams per week. I am 36 years old. This is a huge life change for me. The interesting part is i used to stay around 290 or so now i am 260 but my measurements hae not changed much other than dropping about 3-4" off my waist. Still very nearly as strong, just a little weaker in my squat and deadlift but i look ten times better.
At this time i take 100mg test cyp per week, creatine at 10 grams per day, Rez-V per instructions, Flameout, HOT-ROX Extreme (1 cap twice daily), and a boatload of low carb Metabolic Drive. Of course i am also toying with some deca right now for the sake of “science” (as explained in my original post).
BTW just got back from blood draw clinic so we should soon know about the deca, hopefully within a week or so.
I am highly anticipating the results. This is awesome.
How were (at 290) and how are (at current weight) your blood pressure and lipid values? Do you generally feel better with lower AAS and/or bodyweight?
I am highly anticipating the results. This is awesome.
How were (at 290) and how are (at current weight) your blood pressure and lipid values? Do you generally feel better with lower AAS and/or bodyweight? Why did you choose to stop using?
I feel much better, my lipid profiles really were not that bad at 290 either, maybe some minor improvement. I will never completley stop but i feel like if i can work with this doc and stay at the high end of normal on my test level, then i can pretty much maintain my current physique which is 6’0" 260 wiht abs showing so not too shabby. I may still run some blitz cycles here and there as boosters but in all honesty i knew alot of good guys personally that went down in raw deal. They were no different than me just good guys with families trying to live a better life…now they have nothing and never will all because of our fucked up government thinking they are saving us from something. Unfortunatley i have way too much to lose so i guess their tactics did work to some degree, scared straight, just can’t take the risk of losing career, home, and future for the sake of being 20 pounds heavier. When you start to look at it like that the choice is obvious.
like everything the US governent will go after this hard for a few years and then move onto something else with more sex appeal. The war on club drugs (Extasy especially) seems to be fading into the back pages which was all the news talked about year round 5 years ago (we need to save our youth!..problem was there was only a few deaths a year across the whole country from E which is less than the chance of choking to death on a leaf of lettuce). They will do this until they hit a certain number of busts that make them feel like they won and then things will go right back to where they were before.
Most of the guys that went down including my friends were purchasing powders from a certain powder supplier in China. Most of the experimentation with deca is just due to the fact that i have always wondered if it would show or alter a testosterone level test and i just happen to have it laying around. As far as the blitz cycles here is my take on it. As long as i feel great and look good i will stick with the program, if i begin to lose muscle (right now i have just lost bloat and fat) then i may run short cycles with test suspension, winstrol, masteron (a favorite) to re-establish my level that i am comfortable with. Thats about it. I do believe the reason i am able to maintain this size is due to non-stop usage for many years and secondly alot of GH over the years.
I think as long as you buy from a source that has good security protocols and you never get involved with amounts that could be distributed you are fine. A couple of points about sources, domestic sources that still post openly are idiots never use them, its a matter of time b4 they are in jail.
International sources that reside in countries where it is legal to buy anabolics but then distribute thru domestic remailers are probably the best bet. Or private domestics which are hard to find unless you have been around the game for many years. The cheapest and fastest sources are usually the first ones to get popped because in order to be quick you tend to be careless. So be careful, find a trustworthy source and stick with them, don’t bargain shop.
Since injuring my shoulder I haven’t taken anything beyond my 100mg/wk HRT dose (was doing 200mg/wk as HRT between cycles, but have been at 100mg/wk for months now). I am trying a short two-week cycle right now though. There’s really no point in cycling since I couldn’t work out, and still can’t do much. I was a lean 245 or so, but dropped down to about 225 over about six weeks, which is where I’ve pretty much stayed regardless of diet or lack of working out.
I lost the weight initially because I tried to get down to about 220, so I didn’t eat but 2000 calories per day. It was me being half depressed about the injury and half wanting to be at a lighter weight to feel a bit better while I got it fixed.
I do feel better from not eating mass quantities of food and not carrying around the extra weight (I was breathing hard doing simple activities). The big surprise to me was that with no AAS I have maintained my weight and leanness fairly well, and can only imagine what I would be like if I could actually work out normally. Between myself and morepain, I think it shows that high doses of AAS aren’t necessary to maintain heavy weights if you’ve put your time in, and of course I’m sure peptides help (I only took IGF 4 times, no GH).
I guess I’m trying to say that high doses of AAS aren’t necessary to maintain the majority of the gains. I’m sure over time a blitz cycle would help maintain size and leanness, but the drop in leanness and size isn’t going to be as pronounced as one might think, provided nutrition and other aspects of lifestyle are in order. I had an idea when I started writing this, and I’m not sure I got it across, so sorry if I seem out there.
I was also going to say something about Raw Deal and having a lot to lose. A lot of the guys here are relatively young, myself included. While the risk might seem very low, given enough time it’ll come back to bite you in the ass. I foresaw something like Raw Deal happening and I stocked up on a bunch of stuff a while back, enough to last a couple years of intermittent cycling. It is certainly enough to peg me for distribution, and knowing how the DEA works I’m sure it would seem pretty bad with the powders and processing stuff I’ve got.
I figure I haven’t gotten caught, I’m not going to compete, my quality of life decreases if I get past a lean 235, and I’ve got a wonderful woman in my life that I really wouldn’t want to lose. I’m not trying to turn anyone off steroids, but for myself, being realistic with about risk over time, I’ve come to the conclusion that it’s just not worth it to have make large purchases or be open about my use (not that I am outside of online).
Considering the ease of muscular retention I’ve had so far, and that I can do well with moderate amount of gear with enough time off, I’ve decided to let my current supply dwindle down over the years, and after that pretty much call it quits on ordering mass quantities of stuff.
I’ll get a small amount of stuff here and there for a blitz cycle much like morepain, but there’s no reason to order and get busted on a couple hundred grams of powder. The risk of getting caught with like 20ml of stuff is really not that bad compared to what most heavy users have, and I’d imagine for something like that it would be almost overlooked (probation, community service, very short jail sentence at most) provided I contribute to society outside of my AAS use.
I am really going on here, so I’ll stop. I think you guys get the point. I agree with morepain that sometimes it’s just not worth it.
Just wanted to say this is a terrific thread and I am looking forward to hearing those results, as well, morepain.
[quote]morepain wrote:
I think as long as you buy from a source that has good security protocols and you never get involved with amounts that could be distributed you are fine. A couple of points about sources, domestic sources that still post openly are idiots never use them, its a matter of time b4 they are in jail.
International sources that reside in countries where it is legal to buy anabolics but then distribute thru domestic remailers are probably the best bet. Or private domestics which are hard to find unless you have been around the game for many years. The cheapest and fastest sources are usually the first ones to get popped because in order to be quick you tend to be careless. So be careful, find a trustworthy source and stick with them, don’t bargain shop. [/quote]
morepain, we all appreciate the information you provide as it is very benificial to those of us trying to become more educated. That being said, I would love to extract as much info from you as possible :). What was your favorite cycle including dose? I read above you loved masterone. Can you give us any information on your use of GH, specifically doses and cycling?
If you had to do it all over again, at the beginning of your use…what would you have changed or stayed away from?
Craig
Favorite mass phase (i don’t say cycle becasue i never stopped)
(1500mg testoviron depot 3 shots at 500ea M,W,F , with 600mg EQ)
been awhile back but this prodeced quite a jump in mass and i was starved all the time
best cutter phase - test suspension, winstrol, masteron (short acting), HOT-ROX Extreme at max dose
still use this occasionally, pretty low doses like 50mg of each daily
GH - used in in all kinds of methods, best results were seen using my newest protocol…10iu 3x weekly with 5iu humalog (insulin) always on carb days which coincide with my workout days
I don’t guess i would change much, probably wouldn’t have used alot of the UG’s that i did use becasue i question the quality now in hindsight. If at all possible use only human grade. There is a difference. Always happy to discuss these issues.
morepain, you say you never stopped. I assume you cut back to an HRT dose or did some sort of low-dose bridging. How long would you typically stay on, and to what extend did you notice diminishing returns during a cycle (i.e., it stopped being nearly as effective after 4, 6, 8 weeks.)
no i really mean i never stopped, at least 750 to 1000mg per week for many years. I never stated it was a GOOD plan, LOL.
Holy hell! Was it even still effective after such a long time at that high dose? Do you actually feel normal, with sex drive and whatnot with 100mg/wk?
I used to take Cymbalta, along with trying other antidepressants, but find it kills my sex drive. Has test helped the ED at all, either at 100mg or your “normal” dose pre-HRT?
Hard to know how effective it was, i mean i was able to walk around at 290-300 so from that standpoint it was but no gains were not continuing. I have a totally different theory than most on cycling, i don’t buy into the receptor burnout thing i just think for any given amount of drugs and nutrients there is a setpoint for mass. Sex drive - no issues at all - never had any except when i first started anti-depressants.