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Comment On My Program


#1
i have just wrote out my new years trainning programe lasting 8 weeks and i am wondering what you guys think of it.

monday -
3*3 of cleans from hang
3*3 cleans
3*3 jerks
3*3 pulls
4*3 front squat
some core work

tuesday - chest and back
5x5 on bench press
5*5 pull ups
3x3 incline db bench press
3x5 behind the neck pull downs
3x5 db rows
3x3 clap press ups

wednesday - legs
7x2 backsquat
7x2 NGHR
3x3 overhead squats
3x3 ham curl
3x3 snatch from hang
2x2 snatch

thursday - shoulders+ arms
5x5 behind the neck press
5x5 barbell curls
3x1 clean and jerks
3x5 skull crushers

friday - back + abs
5x5 deadlift
5x5 weighted leg raise
3x failure body raises
3x3 pulls

saterday and sunday rest.


#2

I'll give you this, it's unique.

Are you sure you need all this specilization?


#3

i dno i wrote it out 2 nghts ago i really want to improve my clean jerk and snatch but i hate leaving out body parts so ive tryed to include everything this time. ive just recently finished a 12 weed programe of german volume training the 5,4 and 3 rep one and i left out training my chest.

ive aimed to reach 100kg on the snatch and 120kg on the clean and jerk.

im going easy on my arms and i havent trained my chest in 13 weeks now so i want to hit that again too.

im hoping to get little doms from it so i can cope with the frequency of the legs being involved.

i just wanted thoughts from u guys to see if u thought it might be overtraining or what.


#4

i would just say to stay away from failure cause you have alot of taxing lifts in there.


#5

If you're aiming at just improving those two O-lifts (the snatch and the clean?), Waterbury has a program for that, it's based on improving a body part that isn't as up to par, but I think it could work for this.

I forget what it's called, but someone will definitely remember. Perfect 10, maybe?


#6

On the "leg day" doing back squats, Natural glute ham raises, OHS, and then leg curls before snatch and hang snatch will pretty much make it impossbile to put any effort and technique in the snatch movements.

How much experience do you have with the olympic lifts? If you are a beginner, I would probably just do hang snatches, hang cleans, and jerks for now...along with pulls, and front squats. Don't forget that you don't just do a routine for OL, you practice.

I don't see the point of doing "press clap-up" after all of those chest pressing exercises. You will be too fatigued to be explosive at all.

Ditto with the pulls after deadlifts, so I would cut those pulls out. You already have pulls either in the week, so let the friday be a dead day.

On leg day, ditch the ham curls. You already are doing NGHM and deadlifts.

ON thursday do clean and jerks first, don't worry about them using too much energy. Doing the OL first always helps my lifts...unless I am pushing a max.

You aren't doing enough volume in the OL to get good at them. YOu are doing more barbell curls than C&J, that tells me where your focus is....a little unbalanced.

Start workouts with an explosive lift..a snatch, C&J..then do compound movements, followed by isolation exercises.


#7

Its good but I don't suggest you do presses and pulldowns behind the neck.


#8

How does this program relate to this?

I would go back and have a look at how often you are doing your O-lifts in this program. If you want to concentrate on them, you may have to drop the volume on your other exercises.

Eg I don't see the point of doing a lot of snatch and clean work plus deadlifts. Same with NGHR and leg curls.

Send Dan John a PM and ask his advice. He will save you years of mucking about.


#9

just curious, what's your loading parameters? If you're going at all 80-85% 1RM (or 5-7 RM), you're probably going to burn out sooner than 8 weeks because of the the repetitive loading on the CNS.

Also, what's your way of progressing?

Are you just gonna keep slappin on weight to the bar? Reduce your rest periods? Add sets to some excercises? Add some reps to each set? You should keep progression in mind, as without that you're pretty much going nowhere.


#10

On the "leg day" doing back squats, Natural glute ham raises, OHS, and then leg curls before snatch and hang snatch will pretty much make it impossbile to put any effort and technique in the snatch movements.

i am definitly going to listen to this advice here i am going to add in more snatches from hang and snatches before i squat.

How much experience do you have with the olympic lifts? If you are a beginner, I would probably just do hang snatches, hang cleans, and jerks for now...along with pulls, and front squats. Don't forget that you don't just do a routine for OL, you practice.

ive been practicing them just at the minute and i am quite good at the snatch clean and jerkform should be good enough by the new year.

I don't see the point of doing "press clap-up" after all of those chest pressing exercises. You will be too fatigued to be explosive at all.

the past 4 years ive been training to failure until i started reading moe on this site etc and my chest and lats can with stand a lot of voulume. thiswould normally be about half of my old chest workouts and they were to failure.

Ditto with the pulls after deadlifts, so I would cut those pulls out. You already have pulls either in the week, so let the friday be a dead day.

definitly listenening to this im going to take pulls out on deadlift day.

On leg day, ditch the ham curls. You already are doing NGHM and deadlifts.

im going to leave theham curls in because the load wont bee too high.

You aren't doing enough volume in the OL to get good at them. YOu are doing more barbell curls than C&J, that tells me where your focus is....a little unbalanced.

im only doing 5 sets on my biceps the hole week thataint alot. plus my c and j + snatch will pretty much respond to 2 sets as ive never actually trained them before just practiced a little.


#11

reasons for this.


#12

i will have different loadings for different exercises havent thought the hole thing through yet i just rote it before bed recently. im going to add weight to the bar every week hopefully.


#13

my oly lifts will basically increase from anything because i havent actually trained them before propery just a little practice.

im doing basically no shoulder work only 5 sets im hoping i may incase maybe a few kg in that. and im doing very little arm work just enough to maintain. or maybe a slight increase.

i havent trained my bench in 13 weeks and i am hoping to gain maybe 10kg in that.

my snatch is at 80kg allready and i am hoping at least to get to 90kg at most 100kg

i can powerclean and push press 110kg and i am hoping by the end of this programme i will cleand and jerk 120kg.


#14

I'd like to suggest that you do a lower intensity of the OL, but with more sets so you can tighten the technique. You have some decent numbers. Can you post some vids of your OL for critique?


#15

well the fact that i dnt have a digital camera will make it hard. but my mate is getting one for xmas i think so i shud be able to then.

yeah i mite just do that u seemed pretty impressive with ur oly lifts so advice is well taken.


#16

It places unneccessary stress on the shoulders, specifically the AC joint (I believe?). Really, any wide-grip pulling places stress on the shoulders, but behind the neck is definitly the worst. If you are not an athlete this might not be a huge deal, just be careful with it.


#17

is there any proof of this. my shoulders are healthy and ive been doing it for 3 years. same as everyone else i know.

sure dont squat deep its bad for the knees lol dont deadlift its bad for the back. lol. with attitudes like that ye mite as well not train with weights.

any way thanks for the advice.


#18

I agree with Massif in his recommendation for you to get in touch with Dan John. He's very generous, a pro in olympic lifting, and is sure to help you out.

I'd say you've got too much volume, in general. I don't think you'll find it very ideal to specialize in the Olympic lifts, yet still try to train everything else as well. If you must do this, I would work on the Olympic lifts four days a week, then add 3-4 exercises for accessory work after you finish your o-lift training. This would essentially give you four whole body workouts per week. This is still quite a bit, but the amount of olympic lifts, squatting, and deadlifting you currently have scheduled is just too much.

Good luck!


#19

Concurrent extreme external rotation and abduction has been termed the "at-risk" (or 90/90) position by many practitioners, so behind-the-neck lat pulldowns and presses have been blacklisted. These individuals cite potential problems with anterior glenohumeral instability(4,5), external impingement, internal impingement (a new-age diagnosis common in overhead throwing athletes with hypermobility), acromioclavicular joint degeneration, and even the risk of intervertebral disc injuries (due to the flexed neck position). The infraspinatus and teres minor are shortened in the 90/90 position, and may therefore be ineffective as depressors of the humeral head due to shortcomings in terms of the length-tension relationship.(7)

In my opinion, you must view the two exercises independently of one another. For starters, one must differentiate between exercises involving traction and approximation at the glenohumeral joint. Pulldowns (like most cable exercises) are an example of a traction exercise, as they pull the head of the humerus away from the glenoid fossa. Various pressing exercises, on the other hand, involve approximation; they drive the head of the humerus further into the "socket." Approximation exercises increase the likelihood of subacromial impingement much more than traction exercises, and this is why exercises like pulldowns, pull-ups and shrugs can be integrated into rehabilitation programs before various presses. So, on paper, pulldowns in the "at-risk" position are less dangerous than presses.

However, in comparison to all the pulldown variations you can do in front of the neck, going BTN is just going to shorten your range of motion and reduce activation of the very musculature you?re trying to train.(11) Plus, it?s just painful to watch people do these because this exercise invariably turns into a jerking, seizure-like motion. The in-front version poses much less risk and offer a better training effect, so why anyone would opt for BTN pulldowns is beyond me. I guess it?s for the same reason some people listen to John Tesh; they just enjoy pain, misery and being looked at like they?re nuts.

In spite of the approximation issues, I think that you can make a great case for the inclusion of BTN presses for certain individuals. This position allows for comparable loads to the anterior position without compromising range of motion. If you?re considering implementing the exercise, there are several factors that must be taken into account:

1) Cumulative Volume of the 90/90 position: If you?re already doing back squats and good mornings, you?d likely be better off holding off on BTN presses in order to avoid overloading this potentially harmful position. If you decided to front squat or use a deadlift variation instead of good mornings, though, you might clear up some "space" for BTN presses. You need to consider this cumulative volume from both an acute and chronic sense. There may even be times in the year when you avoid the 90/90 position altogether.

2) Cumulative Trauma to the Anterior Shoulder Capsule: The 90/90 position isn?t the only thing that can irritate the anterior shoulder capsule. Bench pressing and pulldowns/pull-ups also contribute to cumulative stress on this area. I know that I can?t handle BTN pressing with my powerlifting volume, and I can?t say that I know many powerlifters who utilize BTN presses on a regular basis. We simply get enough stress on this front (pun intended) from squats, good mornings, and bench press variations. As is the case with #1, you need to consider both acute and chronic trauma.

3) Goal of Inclusion: Very simply, you need to ask yourself: why are you doing this exercise? If you?re someone with much to be gained from BTN presses, then they deserve much more consideration than if you?re a regular ol? weekend warrior or senior citizen who is just interested in getting in shape and staying healthy. As I noted with good mornings in Part I, it all comes down to how much you?re willing to risk.

4) Flexibility: In order to be able to perform BTN movements with the most safety, one needs to have a considerable amount of humeral external rotation range of motion. As a rule of thumb, if someone has trouble back squatting with anything narrower than an ultra-wide grip, I don?t want them doing BTN pressing.

5) Injury History: If you have a history of rotator cuff problems, I?d advise against performing BTN movements unless you?ve been asymptomatic for an extended period of time. Even then, approach the exercise with caution in your programming and carefully consider your alternatives.

6) Posture: This issue parallels #4 for several reasons. First, if you?ve got significant anterior tilt and winging of the scapulae and internal rotation of the humeri, you aren?t going to have the flexibility to get into the proper position to do BTN presses. And, even if you can manage to squirm your way under the bar, when you start to press, you?ll be at greater risk of subacromial impingement due to the inability of the scapulae to posteriorly tilt with overhead pressing. This is a common scapular dyskinesis pattern related to weakness of several scapular stabilizers, most notably the serratus anterior.

Of perhaps greater concern is the tendency to want to compensate for this lack of flexibility by either flexing the neck?something you want to avoid at all costs in a weight-training context?or allowing forward head posture (where the chin protrudes off a less-flexed neck) to take over. Most people have problems with forward head posture, so the last thing you want to do is reinforce it.

The take-home message on BTN movements is that BTN pulldowns belong in the garbage can, and BTN presses should be used sparingly only in those who meet certain criteria, can effectively write strength training programs, and are willing to assume a bit of risk.

The above taken from EC's article found here:

http://www.t-nation.com/readTopic.do?id=608547