T Nation

Commander of SEAL Team 4 Commits Suicide

Anyone have any thoughts on this? I know there Is a raising rate of mortality in the military but never in my life have I heard a SEAL take their own life… I have looked up to these people for a long time and strived to make it into the teams… Just shocked…

I don’t think any amount of personal drive or training can prepare a human being for the amount of death and violence those guys have to deal with.

It always saddens me to see this. Military suicide prevention programs aren’t up to snuff.

This is terribly sad, but not altogether surprising. High drive like he must have had and high pressure jobs are both associated with a much higher risk of suicide. My thoughts go out to his family.

Very sad. My heart goes out to his family and the guys in his command.

We are definitely failing to provide combat vets with the support they need in the wake of what they endure on our behalf. I don’t know the answers, but I am ashamed of the current state of affairs.

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It makes me think about the person that leaked the information more than anything. What an asshole.

Surprisingly, a recent Army study found the rates of suicide amongst AD operators are actually on par with the rest of our ground forces being actively deployed. Not that it matters… it’s just plain sad and frustrating that more than 10 years into this conflict cycle, suicide rates are climbing not falling. You would think we could have started to figure how to help these guys out by now.

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[quote]Chushin wrote:

[quote]musashi707 wrote:
Surprisingly, a recent Army study found the rates of suicide amongst AD operators are actually on par with the rest of our ground forces being actively deployed. Not that it matters… it’s just plain sad and frustrating that more than 10 years into this conflict cycle, suicide rates are climbing not falling. You would think we could have started to figure how to help these guys out by now. [/quote]

It makes one wonder how much of a priority it really is.[/quote]

Fig leaf.

I have an amazing idea though.

How about not getting guys with an average IQ of 140 and an enormous amount of discipline and willpower into situations that lead to them doing things that break them emotionally.

Now I am not a psychic, but I dont think they kill themselves because they did some ugly shit.

They probably kill themselves because they can no longer tell themselves that they did so for a good reason.

Sad news.
What struck me was his age, 42.
Seems a bit old for such frontline shenanigans. Maybe there should be something like a 10 year limit for these kind of jobs

“Sad news.
What struck me was his age, 42.
Seems a bit old for such frontline shenanigans. Maybe there should be something like a 10 year limit for these kind of jobs”

42? I think you have an american mindset as far as what you think ‘a bit too old’ is,
many a great Soldier and great Warriors of History actually have been much older than 42 in the
Battlefields, one reason they had all this energy was they didn’t eat all the crap americans eat,
and that can make all the difference in the world…they aged better.

We’ve lost more Military BTW in the last 3 years by their own hands than have been lost
in battle…pretty sad, proof we don’t “care” about them, or help them enough, especially
when they come home, they are expendable because they can always be replaced by a new ‘fresh’
young soldier wrapped in the american Flag of idealistic “patriotism”, having absolutely no clue
or prepared psychologically of the Hell he is about to experience.

Definitely need to have change in some regard, Is it more common place now a days of people in the service doing this? I mean you had WWII and then Vietnam and it was like two completely different worlds psychologically… With WWII there was a transition from the combat zone until people came back state side, It gives time to adjust from everything and to ease the psychological pressure, with Vietnam you could kill a few vietnamese and be back transported back home by yourself and be back at your front door step in a couple days… Then you have people that are spouting pure hate towards you calling you a murderer and not giving the support that they need.

Dr. Victor Frankl talks about the sudden release of psychological pressure in his book “Mans Search for Meaning” In which people were suffering from years in the most destitute conditions of the concentration camps to the day they were suddenly liberated and the type of turmoil some people had left over from the experience…

There is alot going on thats effecting the psyche of these people and its really frustrating to think the military and government won’t take better care of this and do something rather then focus on vague politics and their other agendas… I mean this type of thing was not even mentioned once in the presidental debates.

[quote]RampantBadger wrote:
Sad news.
What struck me was his age, 42.
Seems a bit old for such frontline shenanigans. Maybe there should be something like a 10 year limit for these kind of jobs[/quote]

Actually it is pretty average. Maybe a bit on the older side, but within range of average for spec ops. You are not even allowed to apply for Delta force unless you are over 30.

Spec ops command is a bit of a different animal.

[quote]batman730 wrote:
Very sad. My heart goes out to his family and the guys in his command.

We are definitely failing to provide combat vets with the support they need in the wake of what they endure on our behalf. I don’t know the answers, but I am ashamed of the current state of affairs.[/quote]

I agree. Having to listen to some of my good, very good combat vet friends…it’s sad. Angering, and ssd.

And there’s a reason: the psychs the Army (and most other armed forces) sends are fucking desk jockeys. Theyve never seen combat in their lives, they dont fucking know how to deal with it or how to ask questions to somebody who actually HAS been there…repeatedly. You tell me how many fucking tour vets or spec operators are going to open up to a damn monkey in a uniform that sits behind a desk all day pretending “he knows what it’s like” Answer–news headline in this thread.

Its fucking disgraceful.

This is firsthand knowledge btw, coming directly from people I know that have led and killed, and had to send soldiers to see the head docs. Theyre pissed about it too, as you probably can imagine. You can’t help shit if you have no experience “in the shit”, to guys with huge personal walls up…

Well if it is an actual suicide that makes me heartsick. Then again with this administration nothing would surprise me regarding highly secretive missions, men of his expertise and knowledge and sabotage.

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

Well if it is an actual suicide that makes me heartsick. Then again with this administration nothing would surprise me regarding highly secretive missions, men of his expertise and knowledge and sabotage.[/quote]

Only a fuck like you would try to politicize this tragedy. You are either a brilliant troll or a complete imbecile.

What I do not understand is that a lot of notable SEALS developed PTSD through extremely traumatic combat situations like that most notably Marcus Luttrel… What has changed in recent to cause a person of that nature to end his own life like that, There most be something as of more recent to be happening to cause this spike in suicides… I mean this person was an officer of an entire SEAL team and these guys have the most resilience of most people on the planet!

There are hundreds of thousands of cases where people developed PTSD from combat but it hasn’t been causing this much people to end their life before right? Take into consideration that alot of it is people in the service that have not even been deployed to combat zones? What is it that is causing this? Why is it so frequent as of late? Just really tragic and I don’t understand parts of it I still do not fully understand I guess…

[quote]cstratton2 wrote:
What I do not understand is that a lot of notable SEALS developed PTSD through extremely traumatic combat situations like that most notably Marcus Luttrel… What has changed in recent to cause a person of that nature to end his own life like that, There most be something as of more recent to be happening to cause this spike in suicides… I mean this person was an officer of an entire SEAL team and these guys have the most resilience of most people on the planet!

There are hundreds of thousands of cases where people developed PTSD from combat but it hasn’t been causing this much people to end their life before right? Take into consideration that alot of it is people in the service that have not even been deployed to combat zones? What is it that is causing this? Why is it so frequent as of late? Just really tragic and I don’t understand parts of it I still do not fully understand I guess… [/quote]

PTSD is not a new phenomenon. Rather, it’s old as war itself. Take the so called shell shock of WWI for example. Its safe to bet that warriors in antiquity suffered greatly from PTSD like symptoms after physically dismembering fellow human beings face to face. What we are seeing from those returning from Iraq and Afghanistan is the cumulative effect of multiple tours in a relatively short amount of time and PTSD finally becoming more widely understood/recognized as a serious threat to military personnel returning from deployments.

It doesn’t matter how gung-ho or high-speed these operators are. PTSD doesn’t care if you have a Ranger Tab or a SEAL Trident or a SF patch. The act of taking life and constantly living under the the threat of meeting a violent death themselves takes an enormous toll on the psyche of even the most hardened and experienced members of the Special Operations community. Its an unavoidable aspect of warfare. Some are more profoundly effected than others. Some traumatically so. Any any case, it is not a lack of strength or mental fortitude on the part of the victim which is responsible for the condition.

I understand thanks, I always knew of course PTSD is nothing new as it is a result of trauma and develops into general dysfunction in the psyche, I guess like you said it most be the multiple tours and constant stress and pressure in repeated deployments and being downrange… Of course not! I would never think it was something of a lacking fortitude or mental toughness… You do not fight something like that with will power alone it takes something more then just that… something else thats interesting to note too is here https://www.strategypage.com/htmw/htsf/20120118.aspx

Recently they have really pushed the envelope with the amount of deployments they are having go on for these special operations commando, this obviously correlates to far more strain for the SOF community and must have a profound negative effect on its operators…

[quote]Legionary wrote:

[quote]conservativedog wrote:

Well if it is an actual suicide that makes me heartsick. Then again with this administration nothing would surprise me regarding highly secretive missions, men of his expertise and knowledge and sabotage.[/quote]

Only a fuck like you would try to politicize this tragedy. You are either a brilliant troll or a complete imbecile.[/quote]

I am so complete now that I have an evaluation by you. Thanks for the Christmas Cheer.

You can’t possibly understand anything but YOUR politics.

Maybe you know the guy personally. Maybe I can put you in touch with someone in the military that can talk you out of your ONE SIZE fits all ideas. Read some of my posts and get a clue as to what a troll is. A troll isn’t someone you disagree with all the time.

For your information there are plenty of “accidental deaths” or “suicides” that surround ALL governments. One of these days one or two of you will understand in politics as well as that very bad people have wives and children too and can look so unassuming. The good guys don’t usually have affiliations for long with criminals or have mysterious murders surrounding them like the last two Dems. I guess Ron Brown & Scott Walker beleived the same way you do.

I don’t know if you have ever seen the Godfather but watch this and READ MORE, then maybe you won’t get so emotional.