T Nation

Coming Off TRT After 11 Years? Help

I am in an odd situation because my old insurance was cancelled by Obamacare and I now have to be seen by the VA. The old doctor had me on 100m weekly of cyp and my levels were around 400ish…he has never had me on any type of hcg and my boys are half the size they were before I started.

Quick back story…I was put on TRT for low test at the age of 31. In the 11 years ive tried the gels, creams and shots. Nothing has really changed my well being, my libido or my energy. Since I now have to go to the VA the VA doctor suggested I stop TRT COLD TURKEY. No PCT of any kind…I asked, “should I not use HCG or Clomid to kick start my natural production”.

I was in shock that this DR did not care or know about the consequences. So I immediately left and went to my old DR on a cash visit. He agreed to try and come off the TRT if it wasnt helping the symptoms but he put me on HCG for a month and Clomid e/d for 2 months. Then see where I am with my blood levels at that point. I am 4 weeks in and HCG is almost gone. I FEEL LIKE SHI#######.

No energy, absolutely zero libido and I am now regretting coming off. Any suggestions from anyone who was on it long term and stopped? The only benefit I see from the hcg/clomid is my boys are a bit bigger now so that part is working. I am just so frustrated with all of this.

Had blood draw 3 days ago and it came back at 252. I was up around 400-500 while on cyp, depending on the day of the week I had my blood drawn. Is this 252 a sign of it only getting worse or is that to be expected when coming off TRT and doing HCG/Clomid?

How much HCG are you taking and how often? No point in going on Clomid until you can get levels up with HCG. I you can’t get levels up with HCG, you need T. No getting around it. It may take some time after 11 years of being shut down.

11000IU at .25ml daily.

So I should stop clomid? What is making my boys bigger, the HCG or the clomid? I wish I had a Dr. that knew anything at all about all this. One sugggested I get off cold turkey because it will cause me to have a heart attack or stroke. Thanks to the new reports and law suits filed im sure. Soon it will be just as hard to get T as it is to get legit pain meds.

[quote]davinciphoto wrote:
11000IU at .25ml daily.

So I should stop clomid? What is making my boys bigger, the HCG or the clomid? I wish I had a Dr. that knew anything at all about all this. One sugggested I get off cold turkey because it will cause me to have a heart attack or stroke. Thanks to the new reports and law suits filed im sure. Soon it will be just as hard to get T as it is to get legit pain meds. [/quote]

I don’t know what the conversion is … from 11000IU to .25ml a day…
but in reality you don’t need any more than 250-500 per day… Some believe taking too much at too high a dose can desensitize leydig cells. Clomid will also firm up the boys but at a much slower rate… IMO - Just my bro science you could take 300-400 IU 4 times a week… Do this for a month or so then try the clomid

Good luck

[quote]davinciphoto wrote:
11000IU at .25ml daily.

So I should stop clomid? What is making my boys bigger, the HCG or the clomid? I wish I had a Dr. that knew anything at all about all this. One sugggested I get off cold turkey because it will cause me to have a heart attack or stroke. Thanks to the new reports and law suits filed im sure. Soon it will be just as hard to get T as it is to get legit pain meds. [/quote]

I don’t know what the conversion is … from 11000IU to .25ml a day…
but in reality you don’t need any more than 250-500 IU per day… Some believe taking too much at too high a dose can desensitize leydig cells. Clomid will also firm up the boys but at a much slower rate… IMO - Just my bro science you could take 500 IU EOD… Do this for a month or so then try the clomid

Good luck

HCG for a month is not long enough for full recovery of testicles, so your lowish T is to be expected. To give you an idea, in fertility protocols they run HCG for at least three months for testicle preparation alone and then add other stuff. Since you introduce Clomid after the HCG, it should hopefully take over, but again you’ll have to run the Clomid for at least three months.

It simply takes a long time for testicles to regenerate after such a long time off. Hopefully they will, but expecting good results after one month is just completely unrealistic.

In the end, after you stop medication you can only expect to get back to the levels you were at before you started TRT. That is at best.

[quote]seekonk wrote:

In the end, after you stop medication you can only expect to get back to the levels you were at before you started TRT. That is at best. [/quote]

Thats my fear. My delima is the fact that the gels, creams, shots, etc…none made a difference in my libido, energy or well being. What else could be wrong with me if low T( which I have) is not the cause of all these symptoms. I have also had thyroid and estrogen checked regularly and they are all normal.

Your T is not likely to ever get back to what it was 11 years ago. Excluding whatever 11 years of TRT has done, your body would have likely declined in its T level over that time anyway. Whatever it would have declined to is the best you could expect without some form of TRT.

Testosterone really is not expensive at all if you self-inject. A vial (about 5 months supply) costs me only around US$62 with no insurance. That’s $12 per month. The syringes are probably costing me more, but they can be had cheaply also if you find the right source. I’d encourage you to return to TRT on cash rather than suffer without it.

That’s way too much HCG and there’s not much point in doing clomid at the same time, other than to get to stable blood levels before coming off HCG.

Without comprehensive testing, you’re just guessing at what’s going on. You E2 could be high and making you feel like shit. Pick a sensible dose for a couple weeks. Then test for T, Free T, E2 and DHEA-s. No idea if running that much HCG for a month is going to skew the results. Might want to run a sensible dose for three weeks.

I agree with fiestyoldguy. You said that the T wasn’t helping anymore but then stopping made you feel “Like SHI#####” so clearly it was helping. I would imagine after 11 years you must be sick of sticking needles in yourself?

[quote]davinciphoto wrote:

[quote]seekonk wrote:

In the end, after you stop medication you can only expect to get back to the levels you were at before you started TRT. That is at best. [/quote]

Thats my fear. My delima is the fact that the gels, creams, shots, etc…none made a difference in my libido, energy or well being. What else could be wrong with me if low T( which I have) is not the cause of all these symptoms. I have also had thyroid and estrogen checked regularly and they are all normal.
[/quote]

It is a good question.

Only my muscle mass responds to TRT. My mood and libido don’t respond to TRT either for any sustainable amount of time, no matter what changes I make. In fact, erections are better off TRT than on (I have gone off a couple of times).

I think you will read a lot of similar stories online. For a significant number of people, testosterone/estrogen does not seem to be the limiting factor in libido and mood. For them, the problem may instead lie in the thyroid or adrenal axis, or in brain neurotransmitter function. There are many known unknowns, not to mention unknown unknowns as far as libido is concerned. Ultimately, it is all located in the brain, and there the only thing we know is that when it comes to modifying how the brain works nobody knows what the hell they are talking about.