T Nation

Coming Off Testosterone Without Clomid?


#1

Hello people,

I'm a 20 year old guy and my testosterone levels have been in the low-average range (mostly around 450 ng/dl) even since I was 17. I've tried som things to raise my levels but it seems like I can't get above 500 ng/dl but with lack of sleep and stress I will get below 350 ng/dl. Every doctor I've seen tells me my levels are normal, so I'll self-medicate.

I don't want people to tell me I should or shouldn't do TRT. I made the decision. There is just one thing I want to know and that's if it is possible to come off WITHOUT using clomid. I'll use HCG along with testosterone and possibly an AI, so when I come off will an AI be enough to get my body producing my old levels again?

I'm not planning to come off once I start, but I want to be on the safe side when I do decide I have to/ want to stop. The reason I'm thinking an AI might be enough is because the HCG will keep my testicles from shutting down completely right? And blocking estrogen might be enough to restart the natural production of T.

I'm probably wrong, but there is nothing else I could do since clomid gave me PERMANENT eye floaters before that still bother me.


#2

I came off TRT without Clomid (and without an AI) after being on for two years. The TRT had included HCG to preserve testicles. I had low libido for about 3 weeks after coming off but after that I was back to normal. The testicles firmed up very quickly after coming off everything (the HCG had preserved size to an extent but not firmness).

So no, a SERM is not necessary. I don’t think an AI is necessary either (your E2 will be a bit low already right after coming off, so I think personally it would be unhealthy to make it even lower).

I also got permanent floaters from Nolva/AI previously so I was in the same boat.


#3

450 ng/dL is not low, though, so I think you’d do yourself a disservice by getting on TRT unless you have frank symptoms of low T, such as sexual problems.

Look up some papers on testosterone levels in elite athletes - I have seen some papers where they tend to have levels comparable to yours.


#4

TRT is not meant to be discontinued. It’s for life!


#5

A question on another topic…
Those eye floaters … Are they constant or do you have days without them ?
Can you give more details…


#6

Hey Seekonk,
Interesting to read that you got permanent floaters from clomid too. Most other people say these are only temporary, but for me they probably aren’t. Why were you on TRT and why did you come off?

Hey Brickhead,
I know, but I just want to know if it’s possible to recovery when there will be a time I can’t use testosterone.

Hey Macmathews,
I see them all the time. I started getting them after doing 25 mg of clomid everyday for only about a week. I have them in both eyes. The most bothersome are the black/grey ones. These just look like black dots. I also have some transparent ones that together seem to create something that looks like a crystal snake. It looks something like the image I attached to this message and they are more noticeable when I’m in a bright environment or in daylight than when it’s dark around me. The floaters allways more to the center of my vision when I move my eyes and they “float” in front of my eyes off to the side but never out of sight.


#7

[quote]John_Lennon wrote:
Hey Seekonk,
Interesting to read that you got permanent floaters from clomid too. Most other people say these are only temporary, but for me they probably aren’t. Why were you on TRT and why did you come off?
[/quote]

I came off twice - the first time I used a SERM and AI and got millions of floaters. A ophthalmologist diagnosed it as vitreous detachment, which also caused a small retinal detachment that they had to laser - just so you know, any sudden increase in floaters, appearance of flashes of light, or other changes in vision must be treated as an emergency and you need to see an ophthalmologist within hours to rule out retinal detachment or you can have permanent vision loss. I went on again after about 6 months off because I wanted to try a different dosing regime and was hoping it would help with my periodic depressions. After two years of the TRT not helping, I came off again without SERMs/AIs.

Most of the small floaters have gone away but the large ones are still there. They look like in your picture except larger and more out of focus.

My T was also about 450 before I started. I wanted to experiment to see whether I would feel and look better on TRT. Besides an extra five pounds of water making my muscles look slightly fuller (which gained in the first couple of weeks and then lost within two weeks of coming off) I didn’t notice any other benefits. I stopped because I didn’t like the increased hair loss and facial bloating (no matter what I did to control E2 - I compared pics on/off TRT and my face looked way better off) but the deciding factor was that my erections on TRT became completely unreliable and unresponsive to cialis (this problem was also unresponsive to managing E2).


#8

By the way, since I used a SERM and AI together, I can’t rule out whether it was maybe the AI instead of the SERM that caused it, or maybe the using of both together. I am pretty sure it was one or the other since it happened pretty soon after I started using them.

What I am trying to say is that maybe you should avoid AIs also just to be safe. I am avoiding both SERMs and AIs.


#9

I think it was the SERM though. I’ve used aromasin before without a problem. Also, did you measure testosterone E2 etc while on TRT and how where your levels affected? Didn’t it make any difference at all for your mood, energy, focus, etc.? I’m actually hoping TRT will positively affect my anxiety/depression so please tell me more.


#10

Yes, I had everything measured and we kept T at the high end of normal and E2 mid-normal. (We tried periods of higher and lower T and E2 as well but I honestly couldn’t feel any consistent difference between different levels.)

Besides a short initial blip in mood, I got no lasting improvement in depression or anxiety. As far as energy, I never had a problem to fix in the first place with energy levels since my depression is of the agitated variety.

But many people respond differently, so YMMV.