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Combat Sports/Training Discussion

I would argue that is not true

Back muscles in particular do very will with TUT via Isometric holds, I can share probably 4 or 5 links on T-Nation alone that would agree. If they didn’t work, I’m pretty sure people wouldn’t do them.

Well perhaps they did do something for me. I noticed the most tension on my biceps with levers and planches.

The front lever raises (not holds) can definitely build muscle to a point. Those were very difficult.

A full planche for a guy with thick legs can take years to accomplish.

Isometric holds, you’re probably correct.

However as one progresses to the point wherein they can say, flawlessly transition between a support hold on rings to an iron cross for five seconds and back… That’s going to build some serious mass around the arms

Iron cross takes like 5-10 years to learn though. Quicker to just do a few bicep curls and tricep dips

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A full planche for a guy who weights over 155lbs is going to be almost impossible. It can be done, but it’s extremely, extremely difficult.

Can you hold a front lever?

What does this mean? Is this like a double jump when the jump rope goes under your feet twice? Some of the professional, competitive skippers can get the rope under four times in one jump, not sure how they do it but here’s a link. I wouldn’t ever dare try this, I’d probably just fall on my face.

Also, I thought you stopped lifting weights? Are you back into bodybuilding? What’s your lifting routine like? Full body or bro split? Are you putting up fat weights? Can you even still “build muscle” when you get to your level?

Surely it’d just be about maintenance, I’ve seen your avatars on here… I can’t see one feasibly progressing past that, perhaps you’d eek out like a pound every couple of years :laughing:

Do you need to be bigger than that? Already bigger than 99.99% of the population

I’m going to leave this here if either of you want to read. It seems relevant, but i’m not here to convince either of you that you’re wrong.

I use Isometrics on most of my Pull muscles and have had solid results. I will say they don’t do much for push muscles, as most of the tension is transitioned to the joint rather than the muscle itself.
@BrickHead @unreal24278

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I see… Time to argue

YOU’RE an isometric contraction!

I win…

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Shit, you’re right… :grimacing:

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Thanks. Like I said, maybe they did something for me, or could have done something but I don’t think I’ve made muscular gains for years.

Nope - Sanda. Essentially practically applied kung fu with takedowns. This is Weili’s bread and butter and a strong entry in the convo about complete systems.

In the summer I could hold a modified one with both legs slightly bent.

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I was talking about self defense situation.
Shin kicks are closer distance, so you cant use them too much. You can get punched in the face while lowkicking. Keep in mind that in a street fight you probably wont be doing combos in which you can hide the low kick under some punches.

If you have shoes on, a kick with your toe is much more painful than a shin kick. A roundhouse to the leg, ribs or face with a point of a boot is a goody and it also allows for better distance. You wouldnt kick with your shin to someone who has a knife but if you are simmilar height, a kick with a toe part of a shoe can be done in a safe distance.

And this exactly is why sport stuff is not good for self defence. Any good kickboxer will use his favourite move - low kick, but somehow misses the fact that on the street he has shoes on, and such close distance is not safe at all.
Its also the reason why we have our people do outdoor trainings in winter. You can be a good fighter, but dressed for winter, in snow or on ice, when every mis-step slips like crazy - its a whole different game.
Same goes for lights. If you havent sparred with someone in black clothes with black gloves in the night, outside - you have no clue that you actually dont see his movements and punches too well.

We have people who complain about doing these dark-winter outside trainings under the bridge, but i always say : “where will you probably be attacked? in a gym while wearing fightshorts or outside, when its dark, cold and you cant see shit?”.

Winter darkness is a major equalizer. All the best fighters we have, lose 90% of their ability and become just as shitty as most beginners. You cant move, cuz you slip all the time and you cant even see punches until its too late.

He said Sanda, so maybe he ment Sanda.
Its a chinese kickboxing which allows for Muay-Thai like takedowns, but ALSO allows judo-like throws with the only rule that you cant fall yourself.
Its actually a very cool sport, that would translate great to MMA, the only problem is that its super un-popular outside China.
Its basically Muay Thai with extra throws and takedowns.

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Wouldn’t this necessitate you’re wearing sturdy shoes? I have some heavy, steel toed boots I’d never, ever, EVER want to be kicked in.

Toe kicking with some flimsy sneakers or sandals I think you’d break your toe no?

Thats why you cant learn self defense online, and all this talk about “THE STREETZ” and what would or would not happen is pointless. Most people who talk about this have never been in a fight and have no clue anyway.

So… what we do is… we actually practice in shoes. And we suggest for girls sometimes to practice in clothes they actually wear along with realistic shoes.

As far as kicking with some sneakers - nah, you just pull your toes up in your shoes a bit, so if you hit it too hard, the toes would just roll up and you end up kicking with a ball of the foot, but the point of the shoe is the part that connects.
Its hard to explain, but people just need a realistic practice doing this, and then they need practice on a harder surface, because… just like with fists, you wouldnt punch full power.

If you wanna know how hard you can punch or kick someone in reality, ask someone to wear a motorcycle helmet with a full shield and spar with him, with bare fists.
You will see how all your punches will slow down 50% and become weak, almost slap-like.
Yes, you can punch harder with 2 front knuckles and a fist in a correct position, but try doing it while moving agains someone in a helmet who is actually punching back - punches become less controled, and once you hit your pinky knuckle on a helmet, or an elbow(if doing a body shot) you will never punch HARD in reality again, haha.

Same goes with all the kicks. And even shin-kicks. Unless super conditioned, shin kicks hurt like a mofo even if done correct. So - with a toe kicks its simmilar. You need to try and practice.

Also, keep in mind that roundhouse kick would never be an opener in any situation unless dealing with drunks who you can just lowkick and sit down on a curb to wait for police.
Also, a kick with a toe, wouldnt be a kick “all-through” like a low kick would be(resulting in 360 spin, if not connecting".
There are 2 types techniques for street kicks - one is “push-kick” and another is “stab-kick”. So in this case we would do a stabbing technique, either frontal or roundhouse.
It means that you pull your leg back as soon as it hits the target. The sooner you pull it back, the faster it is and more damage does. It results in a “whip” like motion.

A combo to try this on : Front Leg Groin Kick followed by an upward kick with a toe to the face OR Front Leg Groin Kick followed by an roundhouse to the head or ribs.

No. San Shou

Whatever works.

Funny how San Shou is only used by forreign people while chinese only say Sanda. I guess San Shou sounds a bit cooler and more chinese, haha. Both are correct, its just that Chinese say only Sanda.

Oh man. I love arguing. First of all a fighter will know how to measure distance. This is the first thing they teach you after technique. Measuring your distance and advising your prefered distance.

You will be doing combos if you have drilled enough. It becomes instinct. I see a right hand coming up to my face I shoulder roll it with a left hook and follow up with a stright right. That is a habit. Jab low kick is like the first combo in Dutch KB. You do not even need to hide the low kick. If the person is untrained to check the low kick and you have shins of steel you can throw that low kick anywhere and he is done. Trust me I have been low kicked by a professional fighter. You dont want this shit to happen to your legs. I play soccer by the way, so I have been kicked a lot.

Trust me a sport guy will kick your ass 10 out of 10 times even if your are fighting on ice with dark clothes on. Sports people train to win fights and are trained professionally by other people who have done that for life. And they actually fight. And they are actually high class athletes, faster, stronger, more agile. And they are actually tought fighting tactics and have made these tactics into habits. You know like fakes, distance deceptions, defence tactics and stances, offensive movements and etc.

My brother in law is a world class wrestler. He weights over 100 kg and is 20 years younger. I weight about 90 kg and have some fighting experience. Do you think I stand a chance against this freak in a real fight? He will grab me and kill me before I land a significant punch, because he is quicker and stronger than me.

I didn’t know that…

It would appear watching the matches, to be a good self defense art. Striking but some throwing skills when the (inevitable) rassling starts.

Of course without some ground skills, one might soon be joining the pretzel club.

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Not with something they have never worked before. Sadly that video was deleted, but i had a cool vid on my FB where a good grappler took a dude twice his size in an armbar on the street. The other dude pulled a knife with his open hand and stabbed the grappler 3 times in the stomach. It wasnt easy, but he managed, and that was scary.

I agree with 90% of the stuff you are saying, except i am sure you are not too good of a fighter yourself because of statements like this :

Because i was a fighter myself, and i have trained guys and i have trained with top guys and NEVER in my life have i seen a professional saying something so stupid. I had this epic training experience with a MMA champion of my country. Basically i was a human punching bag for him for 6 months. The trainer was a top kickboxing guy. So basically we sparred, i ate punches and after few rounds the trainer says : “well, you are both having a very good match…” - it doesnt translate to english and i dont know how to say that in english but the idea was that we both are at the same level(which we are not) and the dude i was sparring comes up and says : “oh man, yea, thats for sure” implying that he also thinks that we are simmilar and he is having a hard time. And no. No way in hell. But its just how good fighters are - they will beat you up and then compliment the 1 punch you connected like it was the best thing they have ever seen.
Anytime someone says shit like “i would win 10 times out of 10” i am sure as shit he either doesnt train at all, or was the bottom tier of some McDojo MMA class or smth.

Anyways, thats not the point - you said lots of truths that i agree with, only… There are some differences between a sports fight and streets.
Like the little differences with shoes i mentioned, distances against many attackers or weapons, and footing also(there could be curbs, or stairs you can fall off while stepping back, etc).
Of course - a good fighter will probably win anyways. But then again - none of us are the “good fighter”. Most of us are weekend warriors, and we should know these extra tricks to better our chances.

I did this stupid thing once where i was so much into kickboxing those years, that i actually “sparred” a dude on the street.
I could have ended that shit in 2 seconds if id use what i teach people in Krav Maga class, but NOOOO, i had to do the fancy shit.
Lucky for me it ended well, no one got too much hurt, and i didnt get punched in the back of my head by his friends. But that was a stupid shit to do - ignoring the enviroment and the situation…

This little “street knowledge and tactics” is not something super hard. A good figher would need maybe a month worth of classes to be ready against multiple attackers. More time with weapons, but anyways - he would take very little time to learn it. Problem is, GOOD fighters never end up in street fights. Its the average Joe Schmoe who does. People like you, and me(even tho i have years of experience and i am an instructor, i dont think i classify as a GOOD fighter, i just know shit and i teach shit, and many of people i teach have become better than i am).