T Nation

Columbia Students Attack Minutemen

Columbia University students storm a Minutemen event on their campus and throw slurs and punches in the process. I guess self righteous hypocracy and freedom of speech go hand-in-hand. If you don’t agree with something, hit the person that disagrees with you and call them names. Yeah, that’ll get your point across…

hunter hunted

How the hell can anyone possibly be against enforcing our borders? What kind of mindset thinks wide open borders are a good idea?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
How the hell can anyone possibly be against enforcing our borders? What kind of mindset thinks wide open borders are a good idea? [/quote]

Mine. I would make Mexico a part of the US if I could. I have posted why I feel this way many times already.

I would have to draw the line at punching dudes out over this, though. College kids.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:

Mine. I would make Mexico a part of the US if I could. I have posted why I feel this way many times already.

I would have to draw the line at punching dudes out over this, though. College kids.

[/quote]

K, let’s forget about the making mexico part of the US bit. With it not being a part of the US, how could you not support enforcing the borders and immigration laws?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
How the hell can anyone possibly be against enforcing our borders? What kind of mindset thinks wide open borders are a good idea? [/quote]

Mr. President, I ask you to tear down this wall!

Who said that?

[quote]Sloth wrote:
K, let’s forget about the making mexico part of the US bit. With it not being a part of the US, how could you not support enforcing the borders and immigration laws?

[/quote]
I support enforcing the laws just fine. I would like to change them, however. What we are doing right now isn’t working.

Step one would be making it easy to get a work visa – let’s start keeping track of our immigrants instead of having them steal our citizen’s identities.

If we manage to dry up the untracked and unaccounted for pool of workers around here, the ultra-cheap labor will not be such as common a commodity, and the folks who rely on the slave labor won’t be continuing the cycle that encourages border jumping.

It’s not like we aren’t already providing free health care to the indigents. Might as well make them toe the line like everybody else instead being ninjas in the system.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Sloth wrote:
How the hell can anyone possibly be against enforcing our borders? What kind of mindset thinks wide open borders are a good idea?

Mr. President, I ask you to tear down this wall!

Who said that?

[/quote]

Reagan. But, what in the hell does that have to do with illegal immigration?

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
K, let’s forget about the making mexico part of the US bit. With it not being a part of the US, how could you not support enforcing the borders and immigration laws?

I support enforcing the laws just fine. I would like to change them, however. What we are doing right now isn’t working.

Step one would be making it easy to get a work visa – let’s start keeping track of our immigrants instead of having them steal our citizen’s identities.

If we manage to dry up the untracked and unaccounted for pool of workers around here, the ultra-cheap labor will not be such as common a commodity, and the folks who rely on the slave labor won’t be continuing the cycle that encourages border jumping.

It’s not like we aren’t already providing free health care to the indigents. Might as well make them toe the line like everybody else instead being ninjas in the system.
[/quote]

And wouldn’t you still need better border security and tighter illegal immigration laws? How many we allow in legally is a seperate discussion. One the minutemen aren’t involved in.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
And wouldn’t you still need better border security and tighter illegal immigration laws? How many we allow in legally is a seperate discussion. One the minutemen aren’t involved in.

[/quote]
My point is make it easy to be legal so they won’t be illegal. Why go through the trouble of stealing across the border, working for nickels instead of dollars, worrying about la migra, etc., when you can just catch a ride up to the gate, sign a few papers, receive a pass, and avoid all the headaches associated with the unsavory and dangerous practice of living outside the law?

All those guys who make a living by smuggling Mexicans in will be out of a job, and the Minutemen can go back to chugging beers at the cantina.

Eventually, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Border Patrol disappearing entirely, but that is off topic.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
And wouldn’t you still need better border security and tighter illegal immigration laws? How many we allow in legally is a seperate discussion. One the minutemen aren’t involved in.

My point is make it easy to be legal so they won’t be illegal. Why go through the trouble of stealing across the border, working for nickels instead of dollars, worrying about la migra, etc., when you can just catch a ride up to the gate, sign a few papers, receive a pass, and avoid all the headaches associated with the unsavory and dangerous practice of living outside the law?

All those guys who make a living by smuggling Mexicans in will be out of a job, and the Minutemen can go back to chugging beers at the cantina.

Eventually, I wouldn’t mind seeing the Border Patrol disappearing entirely, but that is off topic.[/quote]

K, how temporary are these work visas? What will be done to alleviate the immense burden they put onto social services? How are you sure they’ll just go back once the temp visa expires?

Once you close the border patrol down, why bother getting your visa? Sneak across, work for cheaper and longer than the temp workers (wouldn’t US occupation laws have to extend to the temp workers?). Work for no health insurance, no vacation days, sick days, personal days, etc. Until, eventually, the illegal workers are now pushing aside the temp workers.

And, I’d damn sure hope it’s more than filling out some papers. What about background checks? Immuno/health checks?

And you’re still leaving the border wide open for terrorist operatives, chronic border crossing criminals, etc.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
K, how temporary are these work visas? What will be done to alleviate the immense burden they put onto social services? How are you sure they’ll just go back once the temp visa expires? [/quote]

  1. Who says they have to be temporary?
  2. Social services like health care are already free to indigents, citizen or not. There won’t be some major burden there.
  3. See number one.

What the work visa people absolutely WON’T have the power to do is what makes being a citizen special. That means they can’t vote, serve on a jury, run for public office, become a police officer, or pretty much do anything which gives them some kind authority over someone else.

Like I said, the border patrol thing is off topic here. Remember when I mentioned I’d like to annex Mexico? That’s when. You don’t see border patrol on the Georgia/Florida state line.

Now here’s something we can conjecture about. What exactly is necessary to get one of these work visas? I’d like a computerized background check for felonies and outstanding warrants at the very least.

The border patrol isn’t going to catch terrorists, no matter how many we station or how many walls we build. We would do better to secure the large flying bombs we use to travel in. I think that’s being handled already.

As for the criminals we deport:
Why don’t we stop deporting them? Let’s keep those criminals here. We can make plenty of room in the jails by granting amnesty to those who are incarcerated for non-violent marijuana offenses.

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
K, how temporary are these work visas? What will be done to alleviate the immense burden they put onto social services? How are you sure they’ll just go back once the temp visa expires?

  1. Who says they have to be temporary?
  2. Social services like health care are already free to indigents, citizen or not. There won’t be some major burden there.
  3. See number one.

What the work visa people absolutely WON’T have the power to do is what makes being a citizen special. That means they can’t vote, serve on a jury, run for public office, become a police officer, or pretty much do anything which gives them some kind authority over someone else.

Once you close the border patrol down, why bother getting your visa? Sneak across, work for cheaper and longer than the temp workers (wouldn’t US occupation laws have to extend to the temp workers?). Work for no health insurance, no vacation days, sick days, personal days, etc. Until, eventually, the illegal workers are now pushing aside the temp workers.
Like I said, the border patrol thing is off topic here. Remember when I mentioned I’d like to annex Mexico? That’s when. You don’t see border patrol on the Georgia/Florida state line.

And, I’d damn sure hope it’s more than filling out some papers. What about background checks? Immuno/health checks?

Now here’s something we can conjecture about. What exactly is necessary to get one of these work visas? I’d like a computerized background check for felonies and outstanding warrants at the very least.

And you’re still leaving the border wide open for terrorist operatives, chronic border crossing criminals, etc.

The border patrol isn’t going to catch terrorists, no matter how many we station or how many walls we build. We would do better to secure the large flying bombs we use to travel in. I think that’s being handled already.

As for the criminals we deport:
Why don’t we stop deporting them? Let’s keep those criminals here. We can make plenty of room in the jails by granting amnesty to those who are incarcerated for non-violent marijuana offenses.[/quote]

I’m going to have to seriously disagree with what you propose. However, I don’t want to turn this post into a debate between me and you. Thanks for your answers.

[quote]Sloth wrote:
I’m going to have to seriously disagree with what you propose. However, I don’t want to turn this post into a debate between me and you. Thanks for your answers.

[/quote]
Thanks for yours. We aren’t going to agree on much around here, I’m afraid. :slight_smile:

[quote]lothario1132 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m going to have to seriously disagree with what you propose. However, I don’t want to turn this post into a debate between me and you. Thanks for your answers.

Thanks for yours. We aren’t going to agree on much around here, I’m afraid. :slight_smile:

[/quote]

laugh The funny part is, that if we were a truly free American republic this wouldn’t be an issue. The fact is that with us being a socialist nation everyone wants to come and get their hands on all the money our government is handing out.

I say let immigrants come. The government has no right to tell me who I am allowed to hire. More bodies on the gov’t tit will also speed up the death of welfare, socialist security and other gov’t programs.

This way I will still be young enough to keep myself and my loved ones alive when shit gets crazy in the coming decades.

Mike

how about the death penalty for illegal immigrants, or maybe for repeat offenders? that should solve this problem in a hurry. i dont mean the long 20 years on death row that would cost us wayyyy more than their lives are worth. i would like to see makeshift courts and firing squads set up at all border patrol stations. 2-3 days of cost to us for housing until the trial,and then the cost of a bullet. how’s that for a border policy, bitches.

[quote]mazilla wrote:
how about the death penalty for illegal immigrants, or maybe for repeat offenders? that should solve this problem in a hurry. i dont mean the long 20 years on death row that would cost us wayyyy more than their lives are worth. i would like to see makeshift courts and firing squads set up at all border patrol stations. 2-3 days of cost to us for housing until the trial,and then the cost of a bullet. how’s that for a border policy, bitches.[/quote]

That’s pretty good. WHen you catch them the first time, take a DNA sample and send them back. Next time the DNA matches, boom. No real need for a trial if you don’t allow any defense to being across the border illegally.

[quote]Mikeyali wrote:
lothario1132 wrote:
Sloth wrote:
I’m going to have to seriously disagree with what you propose. However, I don’t want to turn this post into a debate between me and you. Thanks for your answers.

Thanks for yours. We aren’t going to agree on much around here, I’m afraid. :slight_smile:

laugh The funny part is, that if we were a truly free American republic this wouldn’t be an issue. The fact is that with us being a socialist nation everyone wants to come and get their hands on all the money our government is handing out.

I say let immigrants come. The government has no right to tell me who I am allowed to hire. More bodies on the gov’t tit will also speed up the death of welfare, socialist security and other gov’t programs.

This way I will still be young enough to keep myself and my loved ones alive when shit gets crazy in the coming decades.

Mike[/quote]

Now this, I can agree with. As it is now, illegal immigration has had a devestating effect, in some parts of the country, on social services and programs. Once the government (if, ever) gets out of the business of wealth redistribution, then I don’t have many, if any, objections to work visa ideas.

[quote]doogie wrote:
mazilla wrote:
how about the death penalty for illegal immigrants, or maybe for repeat offenders? that should solve this problem in a hurry. i dont mean the long 20 years on death row that would cost us wayyyy more than their lives are worth. i would like to see makeshift courts and firing squads set up at all border patrol stations. 2-3 days of cost to us for housing until the trial,and then the cost of a bullet. how’s that for a border policy, bitches.

That’s pretty good. WHen you catch them the first time, take a DNA sample and send them back. Next time the DNA matches, boom. No real need for a trial if you don’t allow any defense to being across the border illegally. [/quote]

it’s not so much a “trial” as it is a formal sentencing. it’s not like they can get out of it, it’s just a formality.

[quote]Wreckless wrote:
Sloth wrote:
How the hell can anyone possibly be against enforcing our borders? What kind of mindset thinks wide open borders are a good idea?

Mr. President, I ask you to tear down this wall!

Who said that?

[/quote]

As I remember that wall was to keep people prisoners in their own country.

Kind of the opposite thing.