T Nation

Coleman vs Couture

Coleman will gas.

In their primes this would have been a good fight I think. At this point, it’s a sad excuse for a main event. I really like Couture, but he’s not relevant at this point (highly unlikely he’d even get a shot at the LHW belt, and even if he did I don’t think he would be walking away the victor), and Coleman hasn’t been a factor since long before Pride dissolved.

Gotta agree with you Valor that Coleman will gas though, which will result in Randy beating him.

I say Coleman will win.

People needlessly bash him, as he’s still near the top (not top, but close)
He perfected his style, is in reasonable shape and lost recently only to great fighters.
His weightdrop was smart and in time.
When I read Bonnar was gonna destroy him I was actually laughing.
And his match with Rua wasn’t as bad as the MMA media constantly parrots. This was a good fight with both guys giving a lot during the first half.

However, his cardio IS his main achilles heel and Couture will try to take advantage from this.

So, Coleman round one or two.
Eveything beyond that, Randy.

Coleman has a decent chin and randy is not known for his KO power. This means we will probably see a 3 rounder.

Coleman has/had a hell of a double leg. It’s not hard to imagine him taking Randy down and stealing a round. Less likely as he starts to gas.

I wouldn’t put any money on Coleman, but I don’t believe it will be a one sided beat down.

I always had a love/hate opinion of Coleman. He was such a beast with loads of natural talent, but never seemed to evolve, learn anything new, or improve his cardio. Hopefully he is taking it seriously this time around. There is just no excuse for not having cardio. All you have to do is put in the work. He’s had two fights and plenty of time since his comeback started. If he looks like shit in this fight, they should cut him.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
I always had a love/hate opinion of Coleman. He was such a beast with loads of natural talent, but never seemed to evolve, learn anything new, or improve his cardio. Hopefully he is taking it seriously this time around. There is just no excuse for not having cardio. All you have to do is put in the work. He’s had two fights and plenty of time since his comeback started. If he looks like shit in this fight, they should cut him.[/quote]

This is my main beef with PL type strength training in regard to MMA.
It teaches you to act like a dragster.
And you cannot just develop a bigger gastank to counter this. It’s meaningless as the fighter (coleman for instance) always tries to get to 100%.

And Coleman didn’t look bad against the No1 lightheavyweight contender.
Against Bonnar, he won.
So what’s the problem?

The strength training doesn’t have anything to do with it. It’s perfectly possible to do PL-type strength training while doing a lot of cardio work as well.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
In their primes this would have been a good fight I think. At this point, it’s a sad excuse for a main event. I really like Couture, but he’s not relevant at this point (highly unlikely he’d even get a shot at the LHW belt, and even if he did I don’t think he would be walking away the victor)[/quote]

I like Couture in this one, and Dana White has already said that a title shot will result from this match against the winner of Machida v. Shogun 2. I don’t really believe that Coleman especially is deserving. Couture I believe is the UFC’s desired winner (not that I am alleging bout fixing), because he’s the only real name out there who is left with Chuck and Tito off on a coaching stint. Of course, the title shot for this bout’s winner was a statement made before the last Evans fight, which in my mind made Rashad the top contender if he wasn’t already.

[quote]Schwarzfahrer wrote:

[quote]dhickey wrote:
I always had a love/hate opinion of Coleman. He was such a beast with loads of natural talent, but never seemed to evolve, learn anything new, or improve his cardio. Hopefully he is taking it seriously this time around. There is just no excuse for not having cardio. All you have to do is put in the work. He’s had two fights and plenty of time since his comeback started. If he looks like shit in this fight, they should cut him.[/quote]

This is my main beef with PL type strength training in regard to MMA.
It teaches you to act like a dragster.
And you cannot just develop a bigger gastank to counter this. It’s meaningless as the fighter (coleman for instance) always tries to get to 100%.

And Coleman didn’t look bad against the No1 lightheavyweight contender.
Against Bonnar, he won.
So what’s the problem?
[/quote]

When was the last time someone considered Bonnar a contender???
Both these guys are olddddd! shit didnt they wrestle each other in college like 20yrs ago? As said before its a sad excuse for a main event. I have no interest in this fight at this time in there career BUT if i gotta choose i would go with randy in a close geriatric decission.

[quote]SRT08 wrote:

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
In their primes this would have been a good fight I think. At this point, it’s a sad excuse for a main event. I really like Couture, but he’s not relevant at this point (highly unlikely he’d even get a shot at the LHW belt, and even if he did I don’t think he would be walking away the victor)[/quote]

I like Couture in this one, and Dana White has already said that a title shot will result from this match against the winner of Machida v. Shogun 2. I don’t really believe that Coleman especially is deserving. Couture I believe is the UFC’s desired winner (not that I am alleging bout fixing), because he’s the only real name out there who is left with Chuck and Tito off on a coaching stint. Of course, the title shot for this bout’s winner was a statement made before the last Evans fight, which in my mind made Rashad the top contender if he wasn’t already.[/quote]

thats fucked up if one of these guys get a title shot. There are a ton of young, hungry, and deserving fighters who should be on the list ahead of them.

Who?

This is the NCAA 1989 title fight that never happened Both of these guys have shared both
opponents and training partners since college

As easy as it is to count out Coleman, His wrestling is on par with Couture or better in a pure wrestling scenario. Although he is a freestyle guy he has excellent clinch work.

the problem for Coleman is obviously his cardio, that he is just missing allot of basic stuff
like head movement
and the heart of the matte is years and years of not training with good people

that being said , he could still really turn this to a brawl and rough couture up

Despite the winner both fighters have their place among the grates, Couture is better known and has all the UFC success, but Coleman did his thing over in PRIDE and I wouldnt be surprised to see one of the best fights EVER in this one…

But my money is on Couture, I was a huge Coleman fan a while back, the dude is straight POWER, but he’ll probably gas quicker and Couture’s technique will put the finishing touches on a win, Couture TKO in the 3rd.

[quote]dhickey wrote:
Coleman has a decent chin and randy is not known for his KO power. This means we will probably see a 3 rounder.

Coleman has/had a hell of a double leg. It’s not hard to imagine him taking Randy down and stealing a round. Less likely as he starts to gas.

I wouldn’t put any money on Coleman, but I don’t believe it will be a one sided beat down.

I always had a love/hate opinion of Coleman. He was such a beast with loads of natural talent, but never seemed to evolve, learn anything new, or improve his cardio. Hopefully he is taking it seriously this time around. There is just no excuse for not having cardio. All you have to do is put in the work. He’s had two fights and plenty of time since his comeback started. If he looks like shit in this fight, they should cut him.[/quote]

Yeah, I’d have to pretty much agree with everything you said.

I don’t think that Randy will destroy Coleman, but he’s got better striking (and head movement, footwork, etc…) and will likely get the better of Mark on the feet, and although Coleman has/had the better shot (double), could potentially take Randy down with it, and pretty much invented the “ground and pound” method of MMA fighting, at this point I just don’t think he’s got the explosiveness or set-ups to catch Randy by surprise with it and don’t think he’ll get him with it if Randy sees it coming from a mile away.

Randy also has the better clinch (though Coleman is no slouch himself) and has pretty much mastered using it to wear guys out and control the pace of fights.

If the two were equal in terms of conditioning I think it would even the odds. But (as crazy as it is to me that a former Div. 1 National champion wrestler has crappy conditioning) Coleman’s downfall has been his lack of conditioning for a while now.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
If the two were equal in terms of conditioning I think it would even the odds. But (as crazy as it is to me that a former Div. 1 National champion wrestler has crappy conditioning) Coleman’s downfall has been his lack of conditioning for a while now.[/quote]

Coleman’s problem is more that he seems to be more interested in fighting so he can continue to drink at this point. I think that ended his real career much like drugs did to Coleman’s good buddy Mark Kerr.

What does Couture really do best? He doesn’t finish a lot of fighters does he? He goes the distance better than most. What is Colemans weakest point? Obviously, as everyone has already mentioned he gasses early. One more point, while their grappling skills might be close Couture has far better hands and all in all this is a very bad match-up for Mark Coleman. If Couture gets lucky this could be a referee stoppage via ground and pound, if not he wins on a decision.

And if Coleman loses I predict that he’ll drop down to middle weight, no just kidding, but it would be fun to watch him try. Did you notice that when he dropped to 205 he aged about 10 years?

While Couture was not impressive in his last fight I think he’d stand a good chance against Machida just because of style differences.

[quote]molnes wrote:
The strength training doesn’t have anything to do with it. It’s perfectly possible to do PL-type strength training while doing a lot of cardio work as well. [/quote]

You totally missed his point.

He was saying PL type training teaches guys to give 100% as in psychologically give 100% in everything you do. You can train cardio forever, if you only know how to give 100% you will burn out when competing at any sport.

[quote]ZEB wrote:
What does Couture really do best? He doesn’t finish a lot of fighters does he? He goes the distance better than most. What is Colemans weakest point? Obviously, as everyone has already mentioned he gasses early. One more point, while their grappling skills might be close Couture has far better hands and all in all this is a very bad match-up for Mark Coleman. If Couture gets lucky this could be a referee stoppage via ground and pound, if not he wins on a decision.

And if Coleman loses I predict that he’ll drop down to middle weight, no just kidding, but it would be fun to watch him try. Did you notice that when he dropped to 205 he aged about 10 years?

While Couture was not impressive in his last fight I think he’d stand a good chance against Machida just because of style differences.[/quote]

I’d much rather see Couture fight Jon Jones at this point. Jones has looked crazy impressive in his fights in the Octagon and made short work of Hamill (yes, I know that he was technically DQ’d for the downward elbows, but that’s more of a forfeit on his part than a win on Matt’s part) and I think a fight between him and Randy would interesting from a stylistic standpoint.

I really don’t think Randy would do all that well against Machida, simply because he’d have to be very aggressive to be able to chase Machida into a corner where he could get him in a clinch and work his game, and that would play right into Lyoto’s strength. Machida’s footwork is just way too good.

I would love to see Jones fight Couture if he beats Vera. It would be an extremely challenging fight for Jones with such a smart and experienced fighter. It would probably force him to stand up as, even though he has excellent GnP, I don’t think he beats Couture on the mat.

If Jones stops Vera as the headliner on the Versus card, Couture vs. Jones could make a great co-main event and at that point it could wind up being a #1 contenders bout depending on how some things shake out in the LHW division.

[quote]Sentoguy wrote:
ZEB wrote:
What does Couture really do best? He doesn’t finish a lot of fighters does he? He goes the distance better than most. What is Colemans weakest point? Obviously, as everyone has already mentioned he gasses early. One more point, while their grappling skills might be close Couture has far better hands and all in all this is a very bad match-up for Mark Coleman. If Couture gets lucky this could be a referee stoppage via ground and pound, if not he wins on a decision.

And if Coleman loses I predict that he’ll drop down to middle weight, no just kidding, but it would be fun to watch him try. Did you notice that when he dropped to 205 he aged about 10 years?

While Couture was not impressive in his last fight I think he’d stand a good chance against Machida just because of style differences.

I’d much rather see Couture fight Jon Jones at this point. Jones has looked crazy impressive in his fights in the Octagon and made short work of Hamill (yes, I know that he was technically DQ’d for the downward elbows, but that’s more of a forfeit on his part than a win on Matt’s part) and I think a fight between him and Randy would interesting from a stylistic standpoint.[/quote]

First of all you won’t see a Couture/Jones match. If Dana White has proven one thing it’s that he knows which matches make money. Why would he risk putting Couture against Jones before a Couture title fight? He wouldn’t, he knows any given day Couture is just not going to be able to perform as he once did, that day may already be here we don’t know. But, we do know if Couture gets by Coleman he can cash in on Coutures popularity one more time by giving him a title shot vs Machida.

[quote]
I really don’t think Randy would do all that well against Machida, simply because he’d have to be very aggressive to be able to chase Machida into a corner where he could get him in a clinch and work his game, and that would play right into Lyoto’s strength. Machida’s footwork is just way too good.[/quote]

I think you make a valid point, however don’t underestimate Couture’s ability to cut the ring off and corner the faster Machida. If he can’t do that he gets destroyed, if he is able to do that he will take Machida down and give him the beating of his life. But we are getting ahead of ourselves aren’t we?

Couture is slow as shit we all saw what vera did any of the top lhws would smash Couture.