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Coffee and Protein Synthesis

Coffee and protein synthesis? OK Before I spend the entire day looking up info on the internet, I thought I would ask you guys/gals first.

Living in Seattle you will find a Starbucks on every street corner. I must confess to indulging my coffee habit quite regularly. My question is simply what does caffeine do to protein synthesis. I know caffeine tends to wobble your insulin levels but is it detrimental to my protein intake?

As far as I know, it doesn’t do anything to it. It does negatively affect creatine absorbtion.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
As far as I know, it doesn’t do anything to it. It does negatively affect creatine absorbtion.[/quote]

According to whom?

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
As far as I know, it doesn’t do anything to it. It does negatively affect creatine absorbtion.[/quote]

That is a myth that still propagates. There is no actual proof that supports this.

[quote]Barbosa wrote:
Coffee and protein synthesis? OK Before I spend the entire day looking up info on the internet, I thought I would ask you guys/gals first.

Living in Seattle you will find a Starbucks on every street corner. I must confess to indulging my coffee habit quite regularly. My question is simply what does caffeine do to protein synthesis. I know caffeine tends to wobble your insulin levels but is it detrimental to my protein intake?[/quote]

Since many bodybuilders use some form of caffeine to give them a boost for their workouts, I would be quite surprised if caffeine consumption was a liability.

Coffee itself, aside from the caffeine, actually has some very beneficial antioxidants in it.

Title: Testicular atrophy and impaired spermatogenesis in rats fed high levels of the methylxanthines caffeine, theobromine, or theophylline.
Author(s): Friedman L; Weinberger MA; Farber TM; Moreland FM; Peters EL; Gilmore CE; Khan MA
Abstract: Experiments were designed to determine the effects of feeding the methylxanthines caffeine, theobromine, or theophylline to 4- to 6-week-old males rats at a dietary level of 0.5 percent for periods ranging from 14 to 75 weeks. In the first two experiments, Osborne-Mendel rats were fed the test substances alone or in combination with sodium nitrite to test the hypothesis that these amines might nitrosate in vivo to produce toxic nitrosamine compounds. The compounds failed to produce neoplastic or preneoplastic lesions, but a significant positive finding was the occurrence of severe bilateral testicular atrophy with aspermatogenesis or oligospermatogenesis in 85-100 percent of the rats fed caffeine or theobromine. In a third experiment the methylxanthines were fed to Holtzman rats for 19 weeks to determine whether testicular atrophy would be induced in a second strain of rat. The testicular effects were similar to those in Experiments I and II but were more pronounced. Caffeine and theobromine induced testicular injury in nearly all rats. Theophylline induced severe testicular atrophy in 14 percent of the rats, mild to moderate atrophy in 71 percent, and had no effect in 15 percent. The relative testicular toxicity of the methylxanthines was caffeine, most potent; theobromine, slightly less potent; and theophylline, considerably less potent. Somewhat variable atrophic changes of the accessory sexual organs (epididymis, prostate, and seminal vesicles) accompanied the testicular changes. Cytogenetic analysis of testes from caffeine- or theophylline-treated rats revealed a significantly reduced number of mitotic cells in the caffeine-treated group. Plasma testosterone concentrations were significantly elevated in the theobromine group and somewhat elevated in the caffeine-treated group; this correlated morphologically with an apparent hyperplasia of interstitial cells in severely atrophied testes in these groups. Plasma cholesterol concentrations were significantly increased in the caffeine and theobromine groups. Possible sites and mechanisms of action of the methylxanthines in the induction of testicular atrophy and impaired spermatogenesis are discussed.

Title: Comparative toxicities of dietary caffeine and theobromine in the rat.
Author(s): Gans JH
Abstract: Caffeine, incorporated into pulverized Purina Rat Chow at a concentration of 0.5%, was fed to male Sprague-Dawley rats for 7 or 8 wk and the effects were compared with those of 0.8% dietary theobromine, fed to male rats for 7 wk. Both dietary methylated xanthines produced significant decreases in food consumption and body-weight gain when compared to their respective control groups. Food consumption of caffeine-fed rats was 57.2% of controls and for theobromine-fed rats it was 77.9% of the respective controls. Theobromine produced significant decreases in thymus weights, with caffeine producing smaller decreases. The theobromine-fed rats showed severe testicular atrophy with extensive spermatogenic cell degeneration and necrosis, while the testes of rats fed caffeine for 7 or 8 wk showed only scattered vacuolar degeneration of spermatogenic cells. Caffeine appears to be more potent than theobromine as an anorexic agent in rats, but to be equivalent to theobromine in its potential for inducing thymic atrophy and spermatogenic cell destruction with testicular atrophy.

Title: Increases in plasma concentrations of steroids in the rat after the administration of caffeine: comparison with plasma disposition of caffeine.
Author(s): Pollard I
It was demonstrated that the altered endocrine environment caused by caffeine consumption could be equated with a stress-like pattern of response. A single acute treatment with caffeine (30 or 60 mg/kg) to male rats approximately 85 days old caused plasma concentrations of corticosterone, progesterone, testosterone and Na+ to rise significantly above control values. These changes were evident 3 min after caffeine administration and were maintained for 1-4 h before returning to normal. In animals exposed to daily chronic caffeine treatment for 10 days or more the levels of progesterone fell and Na+ rose significantly compared with control values at 24 h after administration. Following a single treatment of 30 mg/kg, caffeine was detected in blood plasma after 3 min, and reached peak levels by 1 h. After 24 h, less than 2% of the peak levels of caffeine remained. Metabolites of caffeine were detectable within 6 min and reached their peak levels 4 and 12 h later for theophylline and theobromine respectively. It is suggested that high steroid levels may in the long-term cause an altered hepatic clearance pattern affecting both steroid metabolism and caffeine elimination. A preliminary study of the morphology of livers from males chronically exposed to caffeine revealed that the hepatic cells lost cytoplasmic matrix, and that the sinusoids did not show up as clear spaces, compared with those in the controls.

[quote]
Since many bodybuilders use some form of caffeine to give them a boost for their workouts, I would be quite surprised if caffeine consumption was a liability.

Coffee itself, aside from the caffeine, actually has some very beneficial antioxidants in it.[/quote]

Well I had no idea about the antioxident qualities of coffee! Thats good news! I was just a bit worried as I have a 6 shot venti americano every morning. As I have been making such rapid progress I was wondering if I could increase my progress still further if I dropped coffee. Was 257 38%BF @ 6.ft even. Went to 8%BF abd 150, after I was happy with the fat loss started hard core training, now 185 and 11%. Just didn’t want to shoot my self in the foot so to speak, on my gains.

[quote]

Title: Increases in plasma concentrations of steroids in the rat after the administration of caffeine: comparison with plasma disposition of caffeine.
Author(s): Pollard I
It was demonstrated that the altered endocrine environment caused by caffeine consumption could be equated with a stress-like pattern of response. A single acute treatment with caffeine (30 or 60 mg/kg) to male rats approximately 85 days old caused plasma concentrations of corticosterone, progesterone, testosterone and Na+ to rise significantly above control values. These changes were evident 3 min after caffeine administration and were maintained for 1-4 h before returning to normal. In animals exposed to daily chronic caffeine treatment for 10 days or more the levels of progesterone fell and Na+ rose significantly compared with control values at 24 h after administration. Following a single treatment of 30 mg/kg, caffeine was detected in blood plasma after 3 min, and reached peak levels by 1 h. After 24 h, less than 2% of the peak levels of caffeine remained. Metabolites of caffeine were detectable within 6 min and reached their peak levels 4 and 12 h later for theophylline and theobromine respectively. It is suggested that high steroid levels may in the long-term cause an altered hepatic clearance pattern affecting both steroid metabolism and caffeine elimination. A preliminary study of the morphology of livers from males chronically exposed to caffeine revealed that the hepatic cells lost cytoplasmic matrix, and that the sinusoids did not show up as clear spaces, compared with those in the controls.[/quote]

Well Shit. So much for the benifits!

[quote]Synthesize wrote:
Title: Testicular atrophy and impaired spermatogenesis in rats fed [u]high levels[/u] of the methylxanthines caffeine, theobromine, or theophylline.

…at a dietary level of [u]0.5 percent[/u] for periods ranging from 14 to 75 weeks.

…A [u]single acute treatment with caffeine (30 or 60 mg/kg)[/u] to male rats approximately 85 days old caused plasma concentrations of corticosterone, progesterone, testosterone and Na+ to rise significantly above control values. [/quote]

These values from these 3 studies exhibit a [i]MUCH HIGHER[/i] concentration of caffeine, theobromine, or theophylline than any human would consume, and especially for the extended periods exhibited in the first two studies…

This is like comparing apples and oranges, and one cannot simply draw a conclusion, willy-nilly, that is applicable to HUMAN use from those values, in my humble, layperson-esque opinion.

[quote]robolink wrote:
These values from these 3 studies exhibit a [i]MUCH HIGHER[/i] concentration of caffeine, theobromine, or theophylline than any human would consume, and especially for the extended periods exhibited in the first two studies…

This is like comparing apples and oranges, and one cannot simply draw a conclusion, willy-nilly, that is applicable to HUMAN use from those values, in my humble, layperson-esque opinion.[/quote]

Agreed.

People need to learn how/when to apply research.

[quote]ChrisKing wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
As far as I know, it doesn’t do anything to it. It does negatively affect creatine absorbtion.

According to whom?[/quote]

Back in 1996, researchers from Katholieke Universiteit Leuven in Belgium showed that caffeine interferes with some of the performance-enhancing effects of creatine [7].

They supplemented a group of nine healthy male volunteers for six days with creatine, creatine and caffeine, or a placebo. Creatine increased muscular performance by 10-23%.

However, when creatine was combined with caffeine, the caffeine appeared to “block” the performance-enhancing effects of creatine. Creatine and caffeine taken together both raised creatine levels in the muscle to the same extent as creatine alone. But it was only the latter treatment that improved performance.

In a later study, the same research group thinks they’ve found out why it happens [3]. A group of ten men took part in five different trials. Each trial was separated by five weeks.

? Four days of creatine loading at 20 grams per day.

? Three days of caffeine intake at 5 milligrams per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of bodyweight.

? Creatine loading plus caffeine intake (a combination of the first two treatments).

? A single dose of 5 milligrams of caffeine per kilogram (2.2 pounds) of bodyweight before exercise.

? Placebo.

Before and after each treatment, the researchers measured the contraction and relaxation time of the quadriceps (the muscles on the front of your thigh) during electrically stimulated muscle contractions.

Why is relaxation time important? The quicker a muscle can relax, the quicker it can contract again. This might offer a benefit during certain types of sport, especially those involving sprinting.

Five days of creatine loading shortened relaxation time. Three days of caffeine intake, on the other hand, with or without creatine, increased relaxation times by approximately 10%. But a single dose of caffeine had little impact on relaxation time compared to the placebo.

But this doesn’t mean that creatine and caffeine should never be used together. It’s important to remember that both studies used very large doses of caffeine (five milligrams of caffeine per kilogram of bodyweight).

For someone weighing 180 pounds (around 82 kilograms), that’s more than 400 milligrams of caffeine. To put this figure in context, one cup of coffee contains 65-115 milligrams of caffeine. Soft drinks contain 10?50 milligrams of caffeine per 12-ounce serving.

What’s more, previous research has used creatine dissolved in warm caffeinated drinks, such as coffee or tea. In other words, only high doses of caffeine have been shown to interfere with the performance-enhancing effects of creatine. A cup of coffee or tea won’t have the same negative impact.

References

  1. Graham, T.E., Hibbert, E., & Sathasivam, P. (1998). Metabolic and exercise endurance effects of coffee and caffeine ingestion. Journal of Applied Physiology, 85, 883-889
  2. Harris, R.C, Soderlund, K., & Hultman, E. (1992). Elevation of creatine in resting and exercised muscle of normal subjects by creatine supplementation. Clinical Science, 83, 367-374
  3. Hespel, P., Op’t Eijnde, B., & Van Leemputte, M. (2002). Opposite actions of caffeine and creatine on muscle relaxation time in humans. Journal of Applied Physiology, 92, 513-518
  4. Preen, D., Dawson, B., Goodman, C., Lawrence, S., Beilby, J., & Ching, S. (2002). Pre-exercise oral creatine ingestion does not improve prolonged intermittent sprint exercise in humans. Journal of Sports Medicine and Physical Fitness, 42, 320-329
  5. Robinson, T.M., Sewell, D.A., Hultman, E., & Greenhaff, P.L. (1999). Role of submaximal exercise in promoting creatine and glycogen accumulation in human skeletal muscle. Journal of Applied Physiology, 87, 598-604
  6. Vandebuerie, F., Vanden Eynde, B., Vandenberghe, K., & Hespel, P. (1998). Effect of creatine loading on endurance capacity and sprint power in cyclists. International Journal of Sports Medicine, 19, 490-495
  7. Vandenberghe, K., N. Gillis, M. Van Leemputte, P. Van Hecke, F. Vanstapel, and P. Hespel. (1996). Caffeine counteracts the ergogenic action of muscle creatine loading. Journal of Applied Physiology, 80, 452-457

Good post Madmax. I still drink coffee when using creatine. I just try not to have caffeine within a few hours of ingesting creatine (post-workout).

EAS has a coffee protein drink. I’ve never tried it.

Whats y’alls fav thing from starbucks? :slight_smile:

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
EAS has a coffee protein drink. I’ve never tried it.

Whats y’alls fav thing from starbucks? :slight_smile:

[/quote]

Black coffee. I’m one of those weird ones. I like to taste my coffee.

[quote]madmax wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
As far as I know, it doesn’t do anything to it. It does negatively affect creatine absorbtion.

According to whom?

Back in 1996, researchers from Katholieke Universiteit Leuven in Belgium showed that caffeine interferes with some of the performance-enhancing effects of creatine [7].

[/quote]

none of which has absolutely anything to do with absorbtion

[quote]cycomiko wrote:
madmax wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
As far as I know, it doesn’t do anything to it. It does negatively affect creatine absorbtion.

According to whom?

Back in 1996, researchers from Katholieke Universiteit Leuven in Belgium showed that caffeine interferes with some of the performance-enhancing effects of creatine [7].

none of which has absolutely anything to do with absorbtion
[/quote]

Ok, I might have mispoken. But who cares if it allows full absorbtion if it interferes with some of the performance-enhancing effects.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
cycomiko wrote:
madmax wrote:
ChrisKing wrote:
jsbrook wrote:
As far as I know, it doesn’t do anything to it. It does negatively affect creatine absorbtion.

According to whom?

Back in 1996, researchers from Katholieke Universiteit Leuven in Belgium showed that caffeine interferes with some of the performance-enhancing effects of creatine [7].

none of which has absolutely anything to do with absorbtion

Ok, I might have mispoken. But who cares if it allows full absorbtion if it interferes with some of the performance-enhancing effects.
[/quote]

Because other studies have shown this not to be the case, or at least that there is no substantial effect.

[quote]jsbrook wrote:
thabigdon24 wrote:
EAS has a coffee protein drink. I’ve never tried it.

Whats y’alls fav thing from starbucks? :slight_smile:

Black coffee. I’m one of those weird ones. I like to taste my coffee.[/quote]

You’re not the only one. Black and strong. Cream and sugar ruins the wonderful taste of a good coffee.

I like coffee more like a dessert - cream and artificial , thank you

[quote]thabigdon24 wrote:
Whats y’alls fav thing from starbucks? :slight_smile:
[/quote]

green tea frappuccino